Another word on 'freshness'?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Racing is completely different overseas. There are many possible reasons as to why they can run more often over there. In US races, horss are often times running hard the entire race. In Europe, they often times just gallop the entire race and only run their hardest the final quarter or 3/8 of a mile. They train the horses totally differenty over there. They give them these long gallops on soft grass. Here they train them on the hard dirt and they have to train them for speed since the fractions of our races are very fast.

From training on the dirt, horses in this country get all kinds of foot problems that are pretty much non-existant in Europe. To suggest that horses here could run more often since they run more often in Europe is absurd.

Guys like Frankel have been training for over 30 years. He's run thousand of horses on 3 weeks rest and he's run thousands of horses on 4-5 weeks rest. So have all the other trainers. They have seen that horses run much better and stay sounder if you give them more time between races. This is no great mystery. I don't get why some of you don't understnad this. It's not really that complicated.

Part of the reason we don't get it is that the best trainers from 20 years ago were running horses on 2-3 weeks rest, and those horses appeared to be running very well. We're not convinced that the breed has changed so much in 20 years or that trainers have gotten so much smarter.

And I'm sure there's an element that we WANT horses to be able to run more often that is influencing our responses, too.

--Dunbar

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Part of the reason we don't get it is that the best trainers from 20 years ago were running horses on 2-3 weeks rest, and those horses appeared to be running very well. We're not convinced that the breed has changed so much in 20 years or that trainers have gotten so much smarter.

And I'm sure there's an element that we WANT horses to be able to run more often that is influencing our responses, too.

--Dunbar

I don't think things have changed that much the last 20 years. I was going to the track every day back in the 1980s. Horses neded time between races in the 1980s too. For example, horses were usually tired after the Triple Crown races and usually got a couple of months off. I don't see a huge difference betwen now and the 1980s. I really don't know much about the 1960s and 1970s but from what people have said it sounds like horses were running much more often back then. It sounds like things are quite different now from 40 years ago, but not from 20 years ago.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I don't think things have changed that much the last 20 years. I was going to the track every day back in the 1980s. Horses neded time between races in the 1980s too. For example, horses were usually tired after the Triple Crown races and usually got a couple of months off. I don't see a huge difference betwen now and the 1980s. I really don't know much about the 1960s and 1970s but from what people have said it sounds like horses were running much more often back then. It sounds like things are quite different now from 40 years ago, but not from 20 years ago.

Rupert, I was thinking of horses like Alysheba, who ran 7 times as a 2-yr-old, 10 times as a 3-year-old, and 9 times at 4. Sunday Silence ran 9 times as a 3-yr-old. Ferdinand ran 29 times in his career. Holy Bull ran 10 times as a 3-yr-old.

And if we go back just 26-28 years, we have Spectacular Bid racing 9 times as a 2-yr-old, an astounding 12 times as a 3-yr-old, and 9 times as a 4-yr-old. And he didn't lose any of those last 9 races.

What makes the 12 times as a 3-yr-old even more astounding was that he WAS given time off after the Belmont, at least in part because of the hoof injury. So a lot of those 12 races had to be coming on very short rest.

--Dunbar

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Rupert, I was thinking of horses like Alysheba, who ran 7 times as a 2-yr-old, 10 times as a 3-year-old, and 9 times at 4. Sunday Silence ran 9 times as a 3-yr-old. Ferdinand ran 29 times in his career. Holy Bull ran 10 times as a 3-yr-old.

And if we go back just 26-28 years, we have Spectacular Bid racing 9 times as a 2-yr-old, an astounding 12 times as a 3-yr-old, and 9 times as a 4-yr-old. And he didn't lose any of those last 9 races.

What makes the 12 times as a 3-yr-old even more astounding was that he WAS given time off after the Belmont, at least in part because of the hoof injury. So a lot of those 12 races had to be coming on very short rest.

--Dunbar

I think that horses today can run 10 times a year. I don't see a problem with that. I think horses can run every 4-5 weeks. But if I had a horse who I really thought could win the Breeder's Cup, I probably wouldn't run him that many times because I would want him to be realtively fresh for the race. I'd probably time it so that the BC would be his 6th race of the year. If the horse was a Grade III type of horse and not a BC type of horse then I would try to run the horse 9-10 times a year.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think that horses today can run 10 times a year. I don't see a problem with that. I think horses can run every 4-5 weeks. But if I had a horse who I really thought could win the Breeder's Cup, I probably wouldn't run him that many times because I would want him to be realtively fresh for the race. I'd probably time it so that the BC would be his 6th race of the year. If the horse was a Grade III type of horse and not a BC type of horse then I would try to run the horse 9-10 times a year.

The biggest problem is that way too many with a G3 type horse are campaigning their horse like a BC type horse.