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#1
11-09-2009, 05:37 PM
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i know that many think illegals get more than they pay for...but i also have read that social security remains afloat mainly because those same illegals are paying into soc. sec. with fake #'s, and will never get that money back. how can they? and of course whatever an employee pays in, the employer must send in the matching 7.5%. now obviously not all illegal aliens are paying into s.s., but not all of them are arriving at the e.r. either. 
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#2
11-09-2009, 05:52 PM
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The anti-abortion amendment tacked on by Bart Stupak has to be removed. It's horrible.
__________________
"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#3
11-09-2009, 06:03 PM
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#4
11-09-2009, 06:33 PM
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They throw real reform (single-payer) out the window before the debate process even starts, compromise the integrity of the bill(s) they do come up with repeatedly, and then go along with this Stupak-ammendment crap. Since the right-wing hillbilly movement is going to scream about "socializing your medicine" no matter what, it would be nice if just once the Democrats actually showed enough backbone to make the right-wingers' fears of drastic change legitimate. So will it shock me if Senate Democrats accept letting a womans' right to choose suffer just because the alternative might be a little politically difficult? Not in the least.
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#5
11-09-2009, 07:14 PM
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the senate will pass a more "conservative" bill than the house and the final bill will be closer to what comes out of the senate than the house. because of senate rules, the key number is 60 votes in the senate, not 218 in the house. the stupak amendment is the consequence of being a "big tent" party. we could try the republican route and start calling anti-abortion democrats "dino's". but i'd rather have an anti-abortion democrat representing a conservative district then an anti-abortion republican. i'll let republicans be the ones to define themselves as a minority.
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#6
11-09-2009, 08:20 PM
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#7
11-09-2009, 06:53 PM
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if i were betting, i'd say the final bill is less expensive and covers fewer people than the current house bill. i'd almost guarantee the ban on government funds for abortions sticks.
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#8
11-09-2009, 10:19 PM
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What the amendment does is prevent anybody from purchasing insurance that would pay for abortion. It is a back-door abortion prohibition. It is slimy and it sucks. I agree, the Democrats are acting completely back-boneless. I figured I'd have to worry about all the "liberal" legislation they would pass. I was wrong. Edit: Illegal aliens are thought to comprise less than 1% of people who get into the healthcare system, from what I've seen written. If anyone has anything different, speak up.
__________________
"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#9
11-09-2009, 10:40 PM
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the amendment prohibits any government funded insurance plan from paying for an abortion. it has no effect on the private insurance market. even plans that depend partially on government funding could offer riders for abortion coverage which you would pay for without assistance from any federal government source. we've lived with the hyde amendment for decades. i'm not saying it's the greatest thing but it's not worth trashing the health care bill over this.
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#10
11-10-2009, 12:13 AM
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Edit: did some searching, and it does involve the exchanges - insurance companies will have to offer the same plan with and without abortion coverage in the exchanges, and as nearly all people in the exchanges will receive some insurance credits, so those people will not be able to purchase any policy with abortion included, thus the companies probably won't even offer it in the exchange pools. If you want to purchase it privately (if it is even offered to you in the exchange) that means that you must anticipate in advance you might need an elective abortion (??!! are they kidding?) Women whose employers purchase insurance through the exchanges will not be able to purchase policies that provide coverage for abortion. In other words, it appears that only women who purchase their own private insurance policies, entirely outside any exchanges (the most expensive available) will be able to get coverage. Abortion is legal. This amendment was a back-door pro-life circumvention of a legal right, that sets women's rights back decades if it sticks around.
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts Last edited by Riot : 11-10-2009 at 01:18 AM.
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#11
11-10-2009, 07:55 AM
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#12
11-09-2009, 11:40 PM
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I thought Obama lifted the ban of federal government money for abortions ? Hell Id love for the feds to pay for my bad choices too. All this provison says is that if you are on the government insurance program they dont want to pay for your abortion , unless its incest , rape or is going to kill the mother . Sounds good to me.
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Horses are like strawberries....they can go bad overnight. Charlie Whittingham
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#13
11-09-2009, 11:48 PM
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figuring a population in the US to be 300 million and 22.5 illegals here it's hard to believe only 1% of the 7% get treated? Or are they just healthier than your average American?
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“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
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#14
11-10-2009, 12:17 AM
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Illegal aliens tend not to seek out things that can get them discovered as such, such as hospitals, unless they have no choice.
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
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#15
11-09-2009, 09:46 PM
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we agree on 1 sentence out of 2000 pages 
__________________
“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
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#16
11-09-2009, 10:10 PM
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Walmart as an example: What happens to the door greeter (usually a senior or disabled person) when the company is facing huge costs (maybe even more than he is getting paid) insuring him?
Answer: he/she will be staying home a lot more or everyone will become (part-time) and excluded. We need jobs; we have too many illegals, how about arresting and not treating illegals at the hospital? A guy having a heart attack you need to treat. But then it’s time to go home. Broken arm? Vicodin and a bus. What's the number we will save on that plan and how many jobs would it provide? 2ndly we missed the opportunity but every child coming in for a free flu shot should have been checked for citizenship and if no; then they and their parents go. Even if only half have jobs we get one job back for every two illegals returned. This frees up people receiving unemployment and welfare 'lifers' to be employed so it could have been a 'cash for clunckers' type home run. But instead of an in-the-park type w/errors this would leave the ballpark.
__________________
“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
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