Derby Trail Forums

Go Back   Derby Trail Forums > Main Forum > The Paddock
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-07-2009, 08:28 PM
dalakhani's Avatar
dalakhani dalakhani is offline
Del Mar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Washington dc
Posts: 5,277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
He didn't win the Strub. He was 2nd to Wooden Phone.

Tiznow's 119 Beyer in the Goodwood as a 3yo - the start before his first BC Classic win - was actually the fastest race of his entire career number wise.

However, he was 6th in his debut at Santa Anita ... and you have the pair of stakes defeats to the sad pair of Wooden Phone and Freedom Crest. That really opens the door for a lot of others.

Pleasantly Perfect got thumped twice by Milwaukee Brew there ... and in MB's only other SA start ... he won the Big Cap by 4 lengths with a 118 Beyer. That put him over the top for me.
Good points. Too bad mizzen mast didnt have a bigger body of work. His two races there were lights out.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-07-2009, 08:29 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
Dee Tee Stables
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: The Natural State
Posts: 29,942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
He didn't win the Strub. He was 2nd to Wooden Phone.

Tiznow's 119 Beyer in the Goodwood as a 3yo - the start before his first BC Classic win - was actually the fastest race of his entire career number wise.

However, he was 6th in his debut at Santa Anita ... and you have the pair of stakes defeats to the sad pair of Wooden Phone and Freedom Crest. That really opens the door for a lot of others.

Pleasantly Perfect got thumped twice by Milwaukee Brew there ... and in MB's only other SA start ... he won the Big Cap by 4 lengths with a 118 Beyer. That put him over the top for me.

didn't milwaukee repeat in the big cap the following year over congaree by a nose?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-07-2009, 08:34 PM
The Indomitable DrugS's Avatar
The Indomitable DrugS The Indomitable DrugS is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
didn't milwaukee repeat in the big cap the following year over congaree by a nose?
Yes. Plesantly Perfect was 4th by 6 lengths in that race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNmaTQ5D2ts
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-07-2009, 11:22 PM
DaTruth's Avatar
DaTruth DaTruth is offline
Churchill Downs
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,969
Default

For Fair Grounds I'd have to consider Hallowed Dreams, who won six races there in a career that saw her win 25 of 30 starts and bank $741k. She was smoking fast and set the 6f track record at FG.

On second thought, I see that you credit HD to EvD. So, I'll throw in Mystery Giver, who was a terror on the FG turf. He won the Fair Grounds Breeders Cup three straight years and added the rich Muniz Hcp (now Explosive Bid) in 2004.
__________________
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner? You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really don't want me to go down there!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-09-2009, 01:10 PM
NavalOrange's Avatar
NavalOrange NavalOrange is offline
Bowie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Foothills of the Adirondacks
Posts: 200
Default

Satatoga Turf: Fourstardave 1990's
__________________
Nobody has more fun than people!

Last edited by NavalOrange : 10-09-2009 at 01:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-07-2009, 10:07 PM
philcski's Avatar
philcski philcski is offline
Goodwood
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 8,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Here's my thoughts.

NYRA Tracks:

AQU: Congaree in a total land slide. 4-for-4 at AQU in his career with a clean sweep of the 3 most important races.

In his stakes debut, took the Wood Memorial by 2.75 lengths over Monarchos. The Monarchos loss was sandwiched in between blowout wins in the Fla Derby and KY Derby.

In AQU start #2 - Congaree broke a 20+ year old record previously held by Spectacular Bid for fastest Ragozin sheet # ever recorded when he won the Grade 1 Cigar Mile with ease.

Also took the Grade 1 Carter with a 116 Beyer and repeated in the Cigar with a 120 Beyer.


BEL: Strong edge goes to Ghostzapper. 5-for-5 at Belmont with a trio of awesome Grade 1 wins at 6.5fs, 8fs, and 9fs. Also a huge Grade 2 True North win with a 1:20.42 clocking and an alw win that rates as perhaps the most memorable alw win of the decade by any horse.


SAR: Slight edge to Medaglia D' Oro over With Anticipation and Commentator.

MDO's 3-for-3 with a Travers/Whitney sweep and a 120 Beyer Jim Dandy score is just enough.


So Cal circuit:


DEL MAR: Skimming gets a strong edge. 4-for-4 at Del Mar with 2 Pacific Classic wins and a pair of awesome big figure wins in the San Diego.


Hollywood Park: Blowout for Lava Man. 3 Hollywood Gold Cup's. One with a 120 Beyer. One on synthetic. A 116 Beyer win in the Gr 2 Californian, a Grade 1 turf win in the Whittingham, and a course record in the Khaled.


Santa Anita: Totally up for grabs between a lot of different horses. I give a very thin and probably unpopular edge to Milwaukee Brew. 2-for-3 at Santa Anita with back-to-back outstanding wins in the Big Cap.

In only loss, was 2nd to Congaree...but one length in front of 3rd place Pleasantly Perfect. PP won the Goodwood, Breeders Cup Classic, and San Antonio in his final 3 SA starts.



Kentucky Circuit:


Churchill: Perfect setup and perfect trip and all ... Street Sense won a Breeders Cup Juvie with a giant Beyer as a 2yo and a Kentucky Derby at 3.

His sire Street Cry has the decade's best Churchill Beyer (118) - but he was only 3rd to Macho Uno and Point Given in the BC Juvie at CD. Einstein's done a lot and is also in the mix.


Keeneland: Slight edge to Take Charge Lady over Midway Road. MR was 4-for-4 including a 123 Beyer performance ... but TC was 5-for-5 with 4 major stakes wins.

Her 91 Beyer in the Gr 2 Alcibiades was the outright decade's fastest in that race. Her 109 Beyer in the Gr 1 Ashland was easily the decade's fastest in that race. She's also won back to back editions of the Grade 1 Spinster.


Turfway: Perfect Drift slight edge over Hard Spun. Both of them swept the major 3yo race and Ky Cup Classic. Perfect Drift beat Congaree in the Ky Cup Classic and Hard Spun beat Street Sense in his KY cup win.



Other major tracks:


Monmouth: English Channel. 3-for-3 .. a pair of Gr 1 wins in the United Nations .. one on firm and one on good ground. A 7 length BC Turf win over the course on soft ground in other start.


Arlington Park: Powerscourt. Crossed the wire first in both Arlington Million tries .. one a win over Kitten's Joy, the other time he was unfairly DQ'd.


Oaklawn Park: Azeri. 3 for 3 in the Apple Blossom with wins over Affluent, Take Chare Lady, and Wild Spirit. All wins in the 105-to-112 Beyer range.


Gulfstream Park: Hal's Hope. Wins in the Florida Derby, Gulfstream Park Handicap, Creme Fresch, and a 5+ length win at 40/1 odds in the Holy Bull as well as a 107 Beyer alw/opt clm win. Not to mention a 2nd in the Fountain of Youth and a 3rd in the Skip Away.


Fair Grounds: Peace Rules. La Derby win over super deep field including Kafwain, Funny Cide, and Badge of Silver. New Orleans Handicap win over Saint Liam and Funny Cide.


Tampa Bay Downs: Above The Wind. From Jan of 2000 to Jan of 2006 he won 8 out of 9 starts in Tampa dirt sprints. Including 3 runnings of the Pelican Stakes at odds of 65/1, 7/1, and 5/1.


Laurel: Xtra Heat. She did fail against the older males when 3rd in the Gr 1 De Francis. But still, 7-for-8 lifetime with six stakes wins at LRL.



Pimlico: Smarty Jones. No horse has swept the Preakness and Pimlico Special ... but Smarty Jones ran an outright decade Triple Crown series best 118 Beyer in the Preakness.

The following years Big Cap winner was 2nd by 11.5 lengths. The following years 5+ length Pimlico Special winner was 3rd by 13.5 behind Smarty Jones.


Delaware Park: Xtra Heat. 4-for-4 with Beyers of 117 and 120 as a 3yo filly.


Mountaineer: Fabulous Strike. 3-for-3 .. all blowout stakes wins with Beyers of 115, 119, and 117.

Louisiana Downs: Happy Ticket (6-for-6)


Evangeline: Hallowed Dreams.


Calder: No clue. Maybe a Gold Mover, or Revved Up, or Best of the Rest?


Golden Gate: Lost in the Fog was 2-for-3 there .. with a 103 Beyer debut win and a 110 Beyer ungraded Stakes win. Smokey Stover was 4-for-5 there with some powerful races. Something tells me there was probably something more deserving though ???


Bay Meadows: Hystericalady was 2-for-2 with a pair of triple digit Beyer wins before she made it big - they were both awesome performances .. but again .. something tells me there was probably someone else more deserving.


Not sure about the other remaining tracks off of the top of my head.
Great list Drugs, not sure I can argue against any of them.

Monmouth dirt, since English Channel wins the turf portion in a landslide, I'll throw Joey P out there. He's started 24 times with 13 wins, 5 seconds, a third, and a track record at 5 1/2F. And for good measure, he accounts for more than half of his sire's (Close Up) wins and 75% of his sire's total earnings.
__________________
please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:26 AM
slotdirt's Avatar
slotdirt slotdirt is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,894
Default

I gotta go with Outcashem at Charles Town. That horse won like 10 straight races in incredibly quick times a few years back.
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:27 AM
randallscott35's Avatar
randallscott35 randallscott35 is offline
Idlewild Airport
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 9,687
Default

I don't see the BigM on here. Tsk tsk.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-08-2009, 08:43 AM
slotdirt's Avatar
slotdirt slotdirt is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,894
Default

Joey P. has also run a couple nice races in the last few years for inflated slots purses at Charles Town. Think he actually came close to setting a track record there last year.
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-08-2009, 09:05 AM
Thunder Gulch's Avatar
Thunder Gulch Thunder Gulch is offline
Churchill Downs
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southland Greyhound Park
Posts: 1,846
Default

I'd give Oaklawn (and Philadelphia) to Smarty Jones. His 3 race spring there was the best to ever come through. On Thorograph, he ran off the page, and no horse has been as popular by a mile this decade. I guarantee any poll among the locals would have him way out in front as the best of the last 20 years.
__________________
Do I think Charity can win? Well, I am walking around in yesterday's suit.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-08-2009, 03:09 PM
The Indomitable DrugS's Avatar
The Indomitable DrugS The Indomitable DrugS is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
I don't see the BigM on here. Tsk tsk.
Ok... some Big M Candidates.

* Burning Roma (4-2-2-0) Beat Volponi in the Med Cup - Volponi romped in the BC Classic next time out. Won the Alysheba by 6 with a big number. 2nd to Volponi in the Pegasus. 2nd on the turf in the John Henry

* Diamond Stripes (2-for-2) won both the Pegasus and the Meadowlands Cup.

* North East Bound won both the Meadowland's Cup and Cliffhanger. Pretty cool horse.

* Tap Day (3-for-4) won the Med Cup and the Princeton

* Slam Bammy (5-4-1-0) Won the Ellio at 11/1 odds. Won the Rutgers. Took a pair of ALW races at 4/1 and 15/1 - and was 2nd in the Rutgers to Joey P. the only time he ever was beaten at MED.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-09-2009, 11:41 AM
philcski's Avatar
philcski philcski is offline
Goodwood
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 8,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by randallscott35
I don't see the BigM on here. Tsk tsk.
I found this one to be very difficult to find a clear cut selection... Burning Roma was what I came up with as well.

Was thinking about Charles Town last night and I think Researcher deserves a look, track recordholder and winner of their alltime richest race.
__________________
please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-18-2009, 10:17 PM
philcski's Avatar
philcski philcski is offline
Goodwood
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 8,872
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by philcski
I found this one to be very difficult to find a clear cut selection... Burning Roma was what I came up with as well.

Was thinking about Charles Town last night and I think Researcher deserves a look, track recordholder and winner of their alltime richest race.
On cue, Researcher runs off the screen again at Charles Town. If they ran the BC Classic there, he'd be 1/5.
__________________
please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-08-2009, 10:11 AM
SniperSB23 SniperSB23 is offline
Hialeah Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 6,086
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Calder: No clue. Maybe a Gold Mover, or Revved Up, or Best of the Rest?
Two wins in their only G1 including a win over Xtra Heat isn't enough to make it clear cut?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-08-2009, 10:26 AM
slotdirt's Avatar
slotdirt slotdirt is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,894
Default

Barbaro ran a race at Calder, no?
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-08-2009, 12:53 PM
Slewbopper Slewbopper is offline
Narragansett Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 568
Default

Funny Cide.....Finger Lakes
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:03 PM
zippyneedsawin's Avatar
zippyneedsawin zippyneedsawin is offline
Oaklawn
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,064
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewbopper
Funny Cide.....Finger Lakes
Tin Cup Chalice.. or Shesastonecoldfox
__________________
Alcohol, the cause and solution to all of life's problems. -Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:05 PM
zippyneedsawin's Avatar
zippyneedsawin zippyneedsawin is offline
Oaklawn
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,064
Default

I'd say it's Congaree for the main track at Aqueduct...and... Spooky Mulder for inner!
__________________
Alcohol, the cause and solution to all of life's problems. -Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-09-2009, 01:34 PM
The Indomitable DrugS's Avatar
The Indomitable DrugS The Indomitable DrugS is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,007
Default

Santa Anita Candidates:

* Milwaukee Brew (already discussed)

* Megahertz (9 stakes wins at Santa Anita. Won the Grade 2 Santa Barbara 3 years in a row, won the Grade 2 Santa Ana twice, also won the Gr 1 Yellow Ribbon, as well as 3 ungraded stakes in her first 3 North American starts)

* Pleasantly Perfect (5-for-10 including a BC Classic win)

* Tiznow (already discussed)

* Rock Hard Ten (6-for-7 including a sweep of the Strub series - Goodwood and Big Cap wins. Only loss was SA Derby when DQ'd from 2nd)

* Lava Man (5-for-11 .. 2 Big Caps and a Sunshine Million Classic win)

* Southern Image (4-for-5 with wins in the Big Cap, Sunshine Millions, and Malibu)

* Medaglia D' Oro (2-for-3. 107 Beyer San Felipe win decades fastest over Fu Peg (106) and Point Given (105) 119 Beyer Strub win and 117 Beyer 2nd place finish in BC Classic)

* The Tin Man (9-for-15 at SA .. won the Grade 1 Hirsch in '02 and '06)

* Zenyatta (3-for-3 El Encino, Lady's Secret, and the Cocoa Beach win)

* Ventura (3-for-4 - BC filly sprint, Gr 1 Santa Monica, only loss a nose defeat to Gio Ponti at level weight)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-08-2009, 02:46 PM
The Indomitable DrugS's Avatar
The Indomitable DrugS The Indomitable DrugS is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Two wins in their only G1 including a win over Xtra Heat isn't enough to make it clear cut?
Best of the Rest won 13 races at Calder ... 10 of which were stakes races .. and 3 different times in his career he ran Beyers of 111 or better going 8.5 at CRC.

Revved Up won the 150K Heath Turf Cup 3 years in a row at CRC at ages 7, 8, and 9 .. each time giving weight to pretty respectable horses like Silver Tree, Magic Mecke, and Soldier's Dancer.

I'd give Gold Mover an edge ... but only a slim one.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.