Summer Bird could be HOY

[skippy3481]

You mean all this time and no one told me horses are diffrent sexes.... that changes everything...

[CSC]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The guy bought the horse the first week in May you figure he mapped out a campaign??? Come on have a heart. They rushed her to the Preakness, drained the life out of her, rested her up crushed in the Goose, then finished up with Smashing wins against colts AGAIN and older horses..Who maps out 8 racetracks in one year for a 3 year old filly.. It was more of a circus act then campaign

I think we need Dorothy, the Lion and Scarecrow for that to happen...she would have had 8 weeks to get ready for the BC, a man of Asmussen's training acumen has done far more with less time. As I said it was a brilliant preemptive strike by JJ for HOY, if she had lost the Woodward I wonder if the campaign would have been written in stone then?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think we need Dorothy, the Lion and Scarecrow for that to happen...she would have had 8 weeks to get ready for the BC, a man of Asmussen's training acumen has done far more with less time. As I said it was a brilliant preemptive strike by JJ for HOY, if she had lost the Woodward I wonder if the campaign would have been written in stone then?

One thing for sure was known when they bought her...She was never ever going to Santa Anita. So if that is mapping out a plan then the plan was to be as agressive as any owner has ever been with a 3 year old filly without ever considering runiing her on poly. If she would be ok on poly or not it really doesn't matter.

She won't be at Keeneland next year or Woodbine or AP unless they try her at those tracks on the grass..

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by freddymo

One thing for sure was known when they bought her...She was never ever going to Santa Anita. So if that is mapping out a plan then the plan was to be as agressive as any owner has ever been with a 3 year old filly without ever considering runiing her on poly. If she would be ok on poly or not it really doesn't matter.

She won't be at Keeneland next year or Woodbine or AP unless they try her at those tracks on the grass..

and had she not been purchased, she wouldn't have run in the preakness, haskell, woodward, etc. in my opinion, we were given more of a treat by jackson buying her-she certainly wasn't going to the classic with her former owners either.

perhaps everyone should enjoy what she did, rather than moaning and complaining about what has been left undone. in her case, she has accomplished far more than many. i don't feel cheated in the least with her campaign this year.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

One thing for sure was known when they bought her...She was never ever going to Santa Anita. So if that is mapping out a plan then the plan was to be as agressive as any owner has ever been with a 3 year old filly without ever considering runiing her on poly. If she would be ok on poly or not it really doesn't matter.

She won't be at Keeneland next year or Woodbine or AP unless they try her at those tracks on the grass..

She most likely wouldnt have run at any of those tracks anyway.

[boswd]

IF Summer Bird wins the BC Classic then He is HOY. I know RA has been the most exciting horse this year and really has been great for the sport but I'm sorry, Belmont, Travers, Jockey Club Gold Cup and Breeder's Cup Classic?
That's insane.

[slotdirt]

Curlin ran five races in three weeks? That sounds more like Kip Deville's yearly schedule.

Honestly, I don't give Summer Bird much of a shot at the Classic. If Ice and co. though the horse was a synthetic star, wouldn't we have seen him run on the stuff already?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Curlin ran five races in three weeks? That sounds more like Kip Deville's yearly schedule.

Honestly, I don't give Summer Bird much of a shot at the Classic. If Ice and co. though the horse was a synthetic star, wouldn't we have seen him run on the stuff already?

Uh what would be the synthetic equal to Haskell, Travers or Gold Cup?

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Curlin ran five races in three weeks? That sounds more like Kip Deville's yearly schedule.

Honestly, I don't give Summer Bird much of a shot at the Classic. If Ice and co. though the horse was a synthetic star, wouldn't we have seen him run on the stuff already?

You had me through the word "star" and then lost it. Why would they run on the synth when he has proven he likes Belmont and dirt? What race was he supposed to run in instead of the Haskell, Travers, or JCGC?

The fact that they plan to cross enter him in the turf - especially considering how terribly he reportedly trained over the grass at Saratoga - probably isn't the best of signs.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh what would be the synthetic equal to Haskell, Travers or Gold Cup?

I get what you are saying, but Ice said that he never trained well over synthetic. Back in the spring they experimented with turf to see if they could look at that race and while he didn't school well on turf either, I think Ice said he'd nominate for both the Classic and Turf.

[boswd]

Has there been any performance comparison of a sloppy track to the synthetcs? People compare the grass to the fake stuff, I wonder if a horse like Summer Bird who runs well on an off track can translate that to the synthetics.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I get what you are saying, but Ice said that he never trained well over synthetic. Back in the spring they experimented with turf to see if they could look at that race and while he didn't school well on turf either, I think Ice said he'd nominate for both the Classic and Turf.

He was actually with Sadler prior to going to Tim Ice and Sadler told the Jayaramans that he did not go well over synthetics at all.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by boswd

IF Summer Bird wins the BC Classic then He is HOY. I know RA has been the most exciting horse this year and really has been great for the sport but I'm sorry, Belmont, Travers, Jockey Club Gold Cup and Breeder's Cup Classic?
That's insane.

It's a tough call but if he SB wins the BC Classic(WHICH IS NO GUARANTEE) I agree with you, obviously Rachel's gender adds to her appeal but I'm not sure if it is FOY(Filly Of the Year) or HOY (Horse of the year) that voters will look at, I know it doesn't enter my equation if I were choosing. That is why we have a different award for Fillies and Mares. The quad of The Belmont-Travers-JCGC-Classic certainly is harder to achieve than The Oaks-Preakness-Haskell-Woodward in my opinion and if gender has no bearing at all Summer Bird should get the nod if he can close the deal in the Classic.

[freddymo]

Respectfully, who friggin cares about HOY. Summer Bird seems like a very nice colt, Careless Jewel looks like a terrific filly, Icon Project could be a monster, Mine that Bird is a nice sort, and Quality Road seems like something that will be watching as well. BUT in 2009 (save Europe) there is only 1 horse that transcended racing. She is perhaps the greatest of her gender ever. She is spoken about in these terms by all thoses that have seen the past all time great filly's. Hence there is only 1 horse that could or should be HOY..Not that I give a hoot about the award.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

It's a tough call but if he SB wins the BC Classic(WHICH IS NO GUARANTEE) I agree with you, obviously Rachel's gender adds to her appeal but I'm not sure if it is FOY(Filly Of the Year) or HOY (Horse of the year) that voters will look at, I know it doesn't enter my equation if I were choosing. That is why we have a different award for Fillies and Mares. The quad of The Belmont-Travers-JCGC-Classic certainly is harder to achieve than The Oaks-Preakness-Haskell-Woodward in my opinion and if gender has no bearing at all Summer Bird should get the nod if he can close the deal in the Classic.

seems like the oaks/preakness etc would be harder to achieve since one has to be a filly to run in the oaks. that in itself makes the other three a tremendous rarity for a filly to attempt, let alone win.
on it's own merits, summer birds four wins (should he win the classic, and i don't know that he will) are good, but his loss to rachel seals the deal for many.

rachel seemingly is a victim of 'what have you done for me lately-itis'. the longer it is since her last race, the more the memory of everything she has actually achieved will fade. a shame, because she's had a hell of a year.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Uh what would be the synthetic equal to Haskell, Travers or Gold Cup?

In 30 years nobody will care

[CSC]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Danzig

seems like the oaks/preakness etc would be harder to achieve since one has to be a filly to run in the oaks. that in itself makes the other three a tremendous rarity for a filly to attempt, let alone win.
on it's own merits, summer birds four wins (should he win the classic, and i don't know that he will) are good, but his loss to rachel seals the deal for many.

However history says that not since Easy Goer 20 years ago has any horse achieved the N.Y triple and if he does win the BC Classic it will be a first of it's kind in racing history, everyone keeps talking about Rachel from a historical point of view and rightly so, but I think Summer Bird deserves a bit of respect in that department also.

rachel seemingly is a victim of 'what have you done for me lately-itis'. the longer it is since her last race, the more the memory of everything she has actually achieved will fade. a shame, because she's had a hell of a year.

For me I respect what she has done, you have to be not a fan of racing to not respect her year, I just don't like how it is being portrayed that she beat Summer Bird at 1 1/8 at a point of time when he was still developing and she was at her peak and though we can debate that race till the cows come home, that race far suited her talents more than Summer Bird's. He lost fair and square, okay but he took her on when the Haskell suited her game to a tee, and due to the preemptive strike JJ had in mind for HOY, Summer Bird will not have a chance to avenge that loss. Dubious or not that is the way it is.

[Smooth Operator]

Curlin = Overrated 'roid freak…




GO SB!

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

He was actually with Sadler prior to going to Tim Ice and Sadler told the Jayaramans that he did not go well over synthetics at all.

NT

For me he is definitely the hardest horse to figure out as we get closer to the BC because he is clearly the best dirt horse at the distance, but knowing that he didn't work well previously on the surface leaves so many questions.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

For me he is definitely the hardest horse to figure out as we get closer to the BC because he is clearly the best dirt horse at the distance, but knowing that he didn't work well previously on the surface leaves so many questions.

Considering his running style I don't think he's going to be a good fit at all on synthetics. He is a grinder who doesn't particularly have a burst of speed.

Of the two Triple Crown race winners that will be in the BC I'd prefer Mine That Bird but, after all, he did finish last on that surface last October.

NT