Summer Bird could be HOY

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I find it hard to believe for one moment that if Jess Jackson had thought RA was feeling good about herself and that she would run well at SA that she wouldn't be there

Just for the sake of asking, why do you say that? Why is it hard to believe that he is sticking to what he said three months ago, before she "showed signs of tailing off?"

The man is keeping his word -- you doubting his intentions doesn't change that. He said he wasn't going to SA LONG before Summer Bird became this "monster" that he should be afraid of. Actually, didn't he say he wouldn't be going even before she waxed Summer Bird the first time around?

So what makes you think his thoughts are anything other than what he's stated since the very beginning?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Just for the sake of asking, why do you say that? Why is it hard to believe that he is sticking to what he said three months ago, before she "showed signs of tailing off?"

The man is keeping his word -- you doubting his intentions doesn't change that. He said he wasn't going to SA LONG before Summer Bird became this "monster" that he should be afraid of. Actually, didn't he say he wouldn't be going even before she waxed Summer Bird the first time around?

So what makes you think his thoughts are anything other than what he's stated since the very beginning?

I think at most he would have atleast reserved the right to change his mind if she doing well, it happens all the time in this sport, plans are not set in stone. Infact I find it hard to fathom why he would have said that 3 months ago not knowing how she would be doing at this stage? No doubt what he did was the smart thing it was a brilliant Preemptive strike for HOY.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think at most he would would have reserved the right to change his mind if she doing well, it happens all the time in this sport, plans are not set in stone. Infact I find it hard to fathom why he would have said that 3 months ago not knowing how she would be doing at this stage? No doubt what he did was the smart thing it was a brilliant Preemptive strike for HOY.

Do you remember last year?

Whether you want to blame Robby for a premature move or not, he insisted that Curlin wouldn't go out West, for the same reason. He gave in, even though he never wanted to go out there, and the horse lost to some turf horses from Europe.

Gee, I wonder why he wouldn't be jumping out of his pants to have another go round at it. I'm baffled. It must be the extra furlong....

[3kings]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think at most he would have atleast reserved the right to change his mind if she doing well, it happens all the time in this sport, plans are not set in stone. Infact I find it hard to fathom why he would have said that 3 months ago not knowing how she would be doing at this stage? No doubt what he did was the smart thing it was a brilliant Preemptive strike for HOY.

I think in Jackson's mind his predetermined refusal to run RA in the BC regardless of circumstance justifies(to himself) Curlin's poor performance last year. He didn't want to run Curlin on the poly and does not want to tarnish the perception of RA, like he feels Curlins' was tarnished.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I think in Jackson's mind his predetermined refusal to run RA in the BC regardless of circumstance justifies(to himself) Curlin's poor performance last year. He didn't want to run Curlin on the poly and does not want to tarnish the perception of RA, like he feels Curlins' was tarnished.

Yes agreed, but isn't the unknown part of racing what makes it such a great sport? If it is it's dumb reason why he isn't running her especially since she has won on poly before.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by CSC

Yes agreed, but isn't the unknown part of racing what makes it such a great sport? If it is it's dumb reason why he isn't running her especially since she has won on poly before.

Agreed! I didn't say it was a good reason or logical, just my opinion of Jackson's reason.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

Yes agreed, but isn't the unknown part of racing what makes it such a great sport? If it is it's dumb reason why he isn't running her especially since she has won on poly before.

While I'm always torn on how I feel about Jackson, and am mostly playing devil's advocate on this particular issue -- why on Earth should he care about the "unknown" and it being "exciting?"

It's his horse, he doesn't think it's in her best interests to run on the stuff, just like he didn't with Curlin last year, and that turned out poorly.

Let's lobby Interpretation's folks to cut him back to a 5-furlong Poly allowance race this fall, it's unknown and would be exciting, right? The sport would be better for it.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

While I'm always torn on how I feel about Jackson, and am mostly playing devil's advocate on this particular issue -- why on Earth should he care about the "unknown" and it being "exciting?"

It's his horse, he doesn't think it's in her best interests to run on the stuff, just like he didn't with Curlin last year, and that turned out poorly.

As a Broodmare prospect and not a Stallian prospect, I think he would do it for the sporting reason only, look at SB's owners, they are having a hell of a time and they have seemingly have concluded that running is better than not running taking a greater risk than a multi millionaire that JJ is.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

While I'm always torn on how I feel about Jackson, and am mostly playing devil's advocate on this particular issue -- why on Earth should he care about the "unknown" and it being "exciting?"

It's his horse, he doesn't think it's in her best interests to run on the stuff, just like he didn't with Curlin last year, and that turned out poorly.

Let's lobby Interpretation's folks to cut him back to a 5-furlong Poly allowance race this fall, it's unknown and would be exciting, right? The sport would be better for it.

No one said he should care though a "sportsman" may have.

The point of horseracing especially for the ultra-rich is to see who's horse is best and to test your horses limits. Since handicap racing has been all but eliminated in this country, it would be nice to see owners/trainers try to test thier horses by doing different things. Surely Jackson has done that with RA but lets face it, he needs to race her at 1 1/4 next year or there will always be that knock against her. Speculating that she could get the distance and doing it are two different things. I think Freddy is nuts to think that she is in another league from Summer Bird, especially at 1 1/4 which is clearly a distance that he excells at. People get too hung up on the results of one race especially in a race where SB was clearly at a disadvantage (track plays to RA's favor not to mention he was cutting back off a 1 1/2 race to 1 1/8th which is tricky).

Anyone who says the sport wouldnt be better off with RA running in the BC has a strange outlook on better off.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No one said he should care though a "sportsman" may have.

The point of horseracing especially for the ultra-rich is to see who's horse is best and to test your horses limits. Since handicap racing has been all but eliminated in this country, it would be nice to see owners/trainers try to test thier horses by doing different things. .

I watched tons of race replays from the 90's last night (do I know how to have a good Saturday night or what? ) and it's so completely depressing how far we've fallen from this concept...

It's also a shame that this has completely destroyed the significance of races like the Pimlico Special etc.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No one said he should care though a "sportsman" may have.

The point of horseracing especially for the ultra-rich is to see who's horse is best and to test your horses limits. Since handicap racing has been all but eliminated in this country, it would be nice to see owners/trainers try to test thier horses by doing different things. Surely Jackson has done that with RA but lets face it, he needs to race her at 1 1/4 next year or there will always be that knock against her. Speculating that she could get the distance and doing it are two different things. I think Freddy is nuts to think that she is in another league from Summer Bird, especially at 1 1/4 which is clearly a distance that he excells at. People get too hung up on the results of one race especially in a race where SB was clearly at a disadvantage (track plays to RA's favor not to mention he was cutting back off a 1 1/2 race to 1 1/8th which is tricky).

Anyone who says the sport wouldnt be better off with RA running in the BC has a strange outlook on better off.

Curlin would have trounced Summer Bird.. We haven't be blessed with a big race from Summer Bird on a fast track perhaps he just loves the slop.. I like Summer Bird but so far he is just a very nice sort.. They could run around Ky and Summer Bird isn't beating Rachel.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No one said he should care though a "sportsman" may have.

The point of horseracing especially for the ultra-rich is to see who's horse is best and to test your horses limits. Since handicap racing has been all but eliminated in this country, it would be nice to see owners/trainers try to test thier horses by doing different things. Surely Jackson has done that with RA but lets face it, he needs to race her at 1 1/4 next year or there will always be that knock against her. Speculating that she could get the distance and doing it are two different things. I think Freddy is nuts to think that she is in another league from Summer Bird, especially at 1 1/4 which is clearly a distance that he excells at. People get too hung up on the results of one race especially in a race where SB was clearly at a disadvantage (track plays to RA's favor not to mention he was cutting back off a 1 1/2 race to 1 1/8th which is tricky).

Anyone who says the sport wouldnt be better off with RA running in the BC has a strange outlook on better off.

I thought you said the way they keep score is with the purse money now its about seeing who is the best? Dinny Phipps must be pissed at Shug for not going in the 500k race huh. I imagine his scorecard needed the extra 200k lol

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 3kings

I think in Jackson's mind his predetermined refusal to run RA in the BC regardless of circumstance justifies(to himself) Curlin's poor performance last year. He didn't want to run Curlin on the poly and does not want to tarnish the perception of RA, like he feels Curlins' was tarnished.

Funny I think that Curlins perception after the race was brought into a more realistic light. He was a pretty good horse, though hardly the type that Jackson and the infidels thought he was.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Funny I think that Curlins perception after the race was brought into a more realistic light. He was a pretty good horse, though hardly the type that Jackson and the infidels thought he was.

Why, because he was only a pretty good turf horse?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Why, because he was only a pretty good turf horse?

No because he was simply a pretty good horse period.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No because he was simply a pretty good horse period.

I don't buy that for a second. He ran against some very crazy pace scenarios after he returned from Dubai last year in his dirt races. They were all either insanely slow, or on one occasion, crazy fast. Neither one is very conducive to running big figures like he did as a three year old.

That said, he still won them all.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think at most he would have atleast reserved the right to change his mind if she doing well, it happens all the time in this sport, plans are not set in stone. Infact I find it hard to fathom why he would have said that 3 months ago not knowing how she would be doing at this stage? No doubt what he did was the smart thing it was a brilliant Preemptive strike for HOY.

Is it that hard to fathom that he really does hate synthetic surfaces and that he would stick to his word?

You make no sense.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Is it that hard to fathom that he really does hate synthetic surfaces and that he would stick to his word?

You make no sense.

I have no doubt he hates synthetic surfaces, I'm sure alot owners and trainers hate synth, the point is some atleast try it because that is what you do with good horses you try it when it is on a big stage. Hey if you have the all world horse of 2009, then why not show some confidence and campaign her 1 more race instead of stopping her on Sept 5. Who in their right mind maps out a campaign and says the Woodward is the final race penciled in on the yr without a chance for ammendment? Does this make sense to you? If it does we live in different universes. You said I make no sense, then I'd like to refer to not making sense as being less gullable than some of the others that are all too happy to just lap up the reasons coming from the JJ camp. I find him somewhat disingenous, then I'm all too happy to be in the minority of the opinion on that one.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by CSC

I have no doubt he hates synthetic surfaces, I'm sure alot owners and trainers hate synth, the point is some atleast try it. Hey if you have the all world horse of 2009, then why not show some confidence and campaign her 1 more race instead instead of stopping on Sept 5. Who in their right mind maps out a campaign and says the Woodward is the final race penciled in on the yr without a chance for ammendment. You say I make no sense, I'd like to refer to this as being less gullable than some that are all too happy to just lap up the reasons coming from JJ camp.

The guy bought the horse the first week in May you figure he mapped out a campaign??? Come on have a heart. They rushed her to the Preakness, drained the life out of her, rested her up crushed in the Goose, then finished up with Smashing wins against colts AGAIN and older horses..Who maps out 8 racetracks in one year for a 3 year old filly.. It was more of a circus act then campaign

[CSC]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The guy bought the horse the first week in May you figure he mapped out a campaign??? Come on have a heart. They rushed her to the Preakness, drained the life out of her, rested her up crushed in the Goose, then finished up with Smashing wins against colts AGAIN and older horses..Who maps out 8 racetracks in one year for a 3 year old filly.. It was more of a circus act then campaign

I think we need Dorothy, the Lion and Scarecrow for that to happen...she would have had 8 weeks to get ready for the BC, a man of Asmussen's training acumen has done far more with less time. As I said it was a brilliant preemptive strike by JJ for HOY, if she had lost the Woodward I wonder if the campaign would have been written in stone then?