Lava Man back in training?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Give me a break. This isnt some non-descript 8 year old and I am not some bleeding heart. But if I was writing a script on an anti-horse racing story, this would be about the perfect scenario to have presented to me. IF he were to have an untimely end on a racetrack, please tell me that this wouldnt look horrific? An old gelding, retired and so far gone that a retirement home is already booked and publicly announced, is suddenly put back in training and winds up dead on the track. Yeah try to spin that one positive. The difference between this horse and others like John Henry was that JH was never retired and brought back. The difference between this horse and Brett Favre is that Favre wont get hurt bad enough to have to be put down (no matter how hard Scavs roots for this). The difference is that this horse was the centerpiece of the 2007 Breeders Cup Marketing blitz (Lava Man vs Bernardini) yet is still competing in late 2009/2010 despite not having won an important race since June of 2007. The difference is that he didnt exactly go out on top and is coming back to clean up some unfinished business. The difference is that he still has 9 year old bones and he tries hard, very hard. The difference is the last time these connections "unretired" a horse, she was soon dead. There is almost no upside to this story but there is a whole lot of downside. And no, that isnt my opinion or feeling, it is the reality that we now live with in horse racing.

I am sure the owners want to earn. I never thought it wasn't about money. More importantly, if they can race the horse sound there is abosultely nothing wrong with racing the gelding if he returns to his better days. So Brass Hat shouldn't run because he is only 90% of what he was?
So if you were in Oneil shoes you would not train Lava Man? I certainly would..He is a horse and IF he is souind WTF.. As for the mare, it happens every single day at some track, training ground or paddock. Horses get killed for every stupid reason in the book. The fact that their mare was a victim may or may not be related. I would assume she would have been a fairly valueable broody so I guess they f'd up royally and would have possibly be even more cautious with Lava Man.
This really is a lot to do about nothing if Lava Man is sound and returns 90% of what he was. I never thought the horse was anything but a juiced game SOB anyway, so I could really give a darn , but geez who really cares if they think he will be seviceable again? Is Funnycide coming back?lol

[Danzig]

this, on the other hand, is a 'comeback' worthy of scorn:

http://www.ntra.com/blog.aspx?blogid...month=9&day=23

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Danzig

this, on the other hand, is a 'comeback' worthy of scorn:

http://www.ntra.com/blog.aspx?blogid...month=9&day=23

If anything could bring back Serling, this would probably be the one.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Danzig

this, on the other hand, is a 'comeback' worthy of scorn:

http://www.ntra.com/blog.aspx?blogid...month=9&day=23

Precious stuff

[TropicalStorm]

There are likely two things at play here.

First, the owners like being in the spotlight with a great horse and miss it.

Second, the owners like money.


I would guess 90% of the critics are not much different than the owners and are basically hypocrits who would do the same thing if they had the horse.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CrossfireHurricane

There are likely two things at play here.

First, the owners like being in the spotlight with a great horse and miss it.

Second, the owners like money.


I would guess 90% of the critics are not much different than the owners and are basically hypocrits who would do the same thing if they had the horse.

one, lava man ran some good races, and for many would be a once in a lifetime horse-so if they can enjoy more races, who can blame them?

two, who the hell doesn't like money??

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Danzig

this, on the other hand, is a 'comeback' worthy of scorn:

http://www.ntra.com/blog.aspx?blogid...month=9&day=23

Wow.

Sam P. was on of those "underdog" horses that I really liked, but didn't know about this or the sale. Starlight always seems a little to eager to get a colt in the Derby, but to take this to court is really admirable.

I can't understand why Triton would choose to bring the horse back and spend all of this money in training and court fees...he's definitely not capable of winning it back on the track and really shouldn't be a breeding animal either.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Wow.

Sam P. was on of those "underdog" horses that I really liked, but didn't know about this or the sale. Starlight always seems a little to eager to get a colt in the Derby, but to take this to court is really admirable.

I can't understand why Triton would choose to bring the horse back and spend all of this money in training and court fees...he's definitely not capable of winning it back on the track and really shouldn't be a breeding animal either.

i knew about the original fight over the horse. what i can't fathom is why there is a stay and the horse is remaining in training while they await another ruling. the contract is clear, as are the signatures. since when is a contract not legally binding? whether the horse should be bred or not is one thing...as for starlight fighting the good fight, i hope they win. there aren't enough owners who are willing to take care of horses they own or had in the past. to have someone do the right thing, and then still end up in court due to someone else doing the wrong thing is absolutely ridiculous.

[Sightseek]

I'm not a big fan of some of the things I've read by Plonk, but I agree with this article.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...emy&id=4499660

[Danzig]

reminds me of when wally hall wrote after the preakness that jess jackson should retire his filly before she suffered the same fate as eight belles. good thing jess ignored his bs advice, as it would have robbed us of some really good races.
no telling what lava man will or won't do-but i doubt the gelding is on many peoples' radar. not only that, but how is the risk with him any more or any less of a risk then with any other horse in training? was anyone appalled when personal ensign returned to racing after breaking a leg? how many horses have taken off months, years (jambalaya leaps to mind) and didn't garner any attention? why is lava man so special? he didn't suffer a catastrophic injury-he started to tail off. he's had time, he's had treatment, and he's possibly back in action. the very fact he's getting some attention will most likely keep his owners from continuing should he show any signs that the comeback needs to be aborted. the hysteria regarding his attempt to return is something to see, that's for sure. the odds for him are probably no worse than for any racehorse-and is probably better than many lower level and mid level claimers.

[Danzig]

http://www.thatsamorestable.net/blog/?p=289

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I think people might forget he was beaten a neck and just 3.5 lengths with a questionable ride in the final two starts of his career - both at the Grade 1 level.

He's had major peaks and valleys in his form before. He ran Beyers between 101-to-107 in four out of five races to end his 3yo season .. including a half length defeat in the Grade 1 Malibu.

Just 4.5 months and 3 very bad races later .. he was back in for a tag and went unclaimed at almost 7/1 odds.

All 5 times he left the state of California he performed miserably. By far and away his best effort in those 5 tries outside of the state was when he gallently was beaten 16 lengths in the BC Classic - and finished only a mere 11.25 lengths behind Giacomo that day.

I can see the arguements for both sides why he should and shouldn't come back.

Even though his best surface has been eliminated - what carries the day for me is that he's not coming back into strength. Richard's Kid just won the Pac Classic - the Cal bred divisions aren't loaded with talent - the turf handicap division out there is hardly stellar. I don't blame them at all for bringing him back ... and I'm sure they'll keep him on a short leash ... one very bad work or one bad race would be enough.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Even though his best surface has been eliminated - what carries the day for me is that he's not coming back into strength. Richard's Kid just won the Pac Classic - the Cal bred divisions aren't loaded with talent - the turf handicap division out there is hardly stellar. I don't blame them at all for bringing him back ... and I'm sure they'll keep him on a short leash ... one very bad work or one bad race would be enough.

One very bad work or bad race might be the only thing it takes before no more Lava Man. It seemed when they retired him that they'd dodged a bullet. Was anybody here going 'oh I wish they'd bring Lava Man back' ? I just never heard a peep from anyone. There was no 'what more could he have done.'

I felt they used Old Friends poorly. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think you get everybody excited about him coming and then he wakes up one morning and gets Stem Cell Wheaties in his breakfast. If the folks at OF are thrilled, I'd like to know about it.

Plonk's article referenced a few horses, but one that occurred to me was Black Gold.

[chucklestheclown]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'm not a big fan of some of the things I've read by Plonk, but I agree with this article.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...emy&id=4499660

George Washington has 0 in common with Lava Man, imo. And none of the red herrings here have anything to do with his situation either. It was only the track (and bc greed) that killed him. Nothing more, nothing less.