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#1
09-15-2009, 06:43 PM
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And to the remark that no three year oild filly defeated older males in a G1 two turn race, I would suggest that Busher be revisted winning both the 10 furlong Arlington Handicap and Washington Park Handicap dusting HOY 4year old Armed at 10 furlongs.... There was NO grading system as such then, but they were certainly the equivalent ... Wake me up when Macho Again is mentioned in the same breath as Armed ... A G1 championship race is only a championship if the entries say so---ONLY Rachel's did in the Woodward, by a head ... As far as comparing the seasons that Rachel and Ruffian had, I am more interested in adding in the supernatural speed of Ruffian---usually under a pull to slow down-- which Rachel does not quite have, and the range of distances she won over in her brief time on earth ... Show me Rachel's time records, show me Rachel going a last eight in 11 plus at 12 furlongs--show me works faster than races and I will listen ... Rachel and Zenyatta are the best two horses out there at present, but after watching 50 years of racing and being priviledged to see Kelso, Fager, Ruffian , Bid, Cigar and others run into the record books, I can tell great without adding hyperbole ... Rachel made history with the Woodward, but Jackson got gravy with the opposition this year, and marketed her brilliantly ... Remember that ... 
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#3
09-15-2009, 08:25 PM
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I have a belief that for sports fans, the world of sports acts like a timeline for your life. And there is a time in everyone's life (usually when they are growing up and sports are the most important thing in the world) that they consider "their" era. The teams and stars of your era were there when it mattered to you, and you identify with them the most. No matter what, you are going to go to bat for your era in these types of debates. My era is the mid-80s to the early-90s when I was about 10 until about 21. For me, the '84 Tigers will always be the greatest team, Jordan and Gretzky will always be the all-time kings of their sports ("Their will NEVER be another Jordan!"), and Joe Montana is without a doubt the best QB ever. (Admittedly a bit stoned. Hope I didn't go off into some kind of space man, Alice in Wonderland-type philosophy rant)
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#4
09-15-2009, 08:27 PM
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Just posted #300. If we were at a bowling alley you'd all be congratulating me and offering to buy my beers.
Louisiana Downs here I am! Gibby likes it.
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#5
09-15-2009, 08:28 PM
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there were some who questioned cigars competition....matter of fact, way back when, slew was accused of beating up on lesser competition. his derby race was called slow...
at any rate, moreso than many horses who have run recently (such as the great curlin!! insert eye roll here) rachel does seem to deserve to be compared to past greats, since none of our present 'greats' stand up very well next to her. as for comparing rachel to euros, good luck with that. if we can't really come to agreement on where rachel fits vs dirt runners, or a certain other distaffer, how can you possibly compare her to turf runners from overseas? at any rate, an interesting discussion for the most part. suffice it to say she's better than much of what we've seen lately. and hopefully she'll only continue to add to her place in history next year. years from now, if people compare horses to rachel, then you'll really know where she fits. it's way too soon right now to say.
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#6
09-15-2009, 08:33 PM
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some good points. when jordan was playing, everyone said no one would compare....but he's retired-and of course other good ones come along. as for gretzky, even he is wowed by ovechkin. it's funny...once upon a time a horse was compared to a former great, and many were scandalized. that would be man o'war i'm talking about. of course now it doesn't seem so odd to compare horses to man o'war. the horse he was compared to? anyone? lol i'd have to look it up myself-it's in a book here somewhere.
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#7
09-15-2009, 09:09 PM
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While we're talking MOW, the Steves Byk and Haskin were talking about the Hopeful the other day and 'our' Steve said MOW lost it, but actually he won the Hopeful and lost the Sanford. I felt a tad silly calling in just to correct that, but having read Man O' War numerous times as a child and Dorothy Ours' book when it came out, I couldn't help but have a bell go off in my head.
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#8
09-15-2009, 09:22 PM
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#9
09-15-2009, 09:29 PM
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#10
09-15-2009, 09:33 PM
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 Right whatever. Haskin didn't correct him and as 'oops' go, it's hardly an earth shattering one. Do most people even know it off the top of their head? Obviously it was a race MOW ran in at Saratoga and we all know he lost there. I'm sure it'd be a popular guess that it was the Hopeful. I just know I always cringed when I got to that part of Farley's book, knowing what was about to happen.
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#11
09-16-2009, 04:13 PM
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#12
09-15-2009, 07:59 PM
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The fact is that RA accomplishment is rare not because it's "hard to do" but because in the modern era, no one ever tries.
If 3yo fillies were taking on older boys and losing on a regular basis in G1 races, then RA's Woodward stands out. As it stands, there is no way to know how tough it is, there is no standard. The only viable comparison is to either go back in history or overseas. Yes, I understand that grass racing is very different but high class horses generally prove themselves very consistently. It goes without saying, especially in France that 3yo fillies and and do compete against older males, beginning in August at Deauville. The good ones win. I daresay that the colts that fillies like Zarkava, Darjina and Six Perfections and Miesque faced were superior to Macho Again, Bullsbay and Cool Coal Man. For another comparison, 3yo fillies take on older males at times in Japan as well. Though it is on grass, their races tend to run more in the "American" style than the Euro.
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RIP Monroe.
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