Travers Buzz: Quality Road a yes..

[tector]

Wait, you didn't hear anybody question going 1.25 off a 6.5 prep off a long layoff? What planet have you been on?

If QR is done for this year (and he very well may not be), will it be fair to ask the question then?

This was a rush job. Pletcher has essentially conceded that. If the horse is out because of it, presumably even you will concede it was not the wisest course. I am just saying it now.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by tector

Wait, you didn't hear anybody question going 1.25 off a 6.5 prep off a long layoff? What planet have you been on?

If QR is done for this year (and he very well may not be), will it be fair to ask the question then?

This was a rush job. Pletcher has essentially conceded that. If the horse is out because of it, presumably even you will concede it was not the wisest course. I am just saying it now.

Read the thread Tector. I did question it...before the race. You didnt say a single word about it. As a matter of fact, you hypothesized about him WINNING.

So if Quality Road wins, you wouldnt have said anything. But because he loses, his connections should be tarred and feathered. NICE.

[tector]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Read the thread Tector. I did question it...before the race. You didnt say a single word about it. As a matter of fact, you hypothesized about him WINNING.

So if Quality Road wins, you wouldnt have said anything. But because he loses, his connections should be tarred and feathered. NICE.

You are full of crap and deliberately distorting posts. All I said is that the people whining about RA not facing QR should shut the hell up because, IF he won, they would likely get another chance to face each other down the road (this was before the enhancement of Beldame). And I had already suggested QR to the Woodward elsewhere.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by tector

You are full of crap and deliberately distorting posts. All I said is that the people whining about RA not facing QR should shut the hell up because, IF he won, they would likely get another chance to face each other down the road (this was before the enhancement of Beldame). And I had already suggested QR to the Woodward elsewhere.

Assuming QR took care of business in the Travers, and RA did so in the Woodward, they could always meet in the JCGC

Did you not post this on page 1 of this thread? Regardless of context, it is what you said. Is this not hypothesizing a win by QR?

Now, i would love for you to post your criticism of the move BEFORE the race. Just one post.

See, its easy to play armchair trainer AFTER the race is run. Right or wrong, I state my opinion before the race and if im wrong so be it. Its easy to criticize a mistake AFTER it is made. I dont want to go back and forth but i just think its pretty lame thats all.

[tector]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Assuming QR took care of business in the Travers, and RA did so in the Woodward, they could always meet in the JCGC

Did you not post this on page 1 of this thread? Regardless of context, it is what you said. Is this not hypothesizing a win by QR?

Now, i would love for you to post your criticism of the move BEFORE the race. Just one post.

See, its easy to play armchair trainer AFTER the race is run. Right or wrong, I state my opinion before the race and if im wrong so be it. Its easy to criticize a mistake AFTER it is made. I dont want to go back and forth but i just think its pretty lame thats all.

Regardless of context...great. Just make up your own context then. Whatever works.

[CSC]

Personally I'd love to see Summer Bird and RA meet in the JCGC later this fall, I think the majority of the public actually believe the result in the Haskell is a true indication that RA is that much better than SB, I know if it were up to Tim Ice he would love a rematch also, if QR or MTB want to be there all the better. I'm dying to find out just how good RA is when she has to face more than 2 opponents dueling themselves into the track as in the Mother Goose at Belmont or having SB waste himself engaging Munnings in the Haskel...Taking gender out of the equation RA is very good racehorse period, but isn't she also hyped to some degree being that she is a filly, her only true tough race when conditions were not ideal for her was the Preakness...and we know how close she came to being beaten there.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by CSC

Personally I'd like to see Summer Bird and RA meet in the JCGC later this fall, I think the majority of the public actually believe the result in the Haskell is a true indication that RA is that better than SB, I know if it were up to Tim Ice he would love a rematch also, if QR or MTB want to be there all the better. I'm dying to find out just how good RA is when she has to face more than 2 opponents dueling themselves into the track as in the Mother Goose at Belmont or having SB waste himself engaging Munnings in the Haskel...Taking gender out of the equation RA is very good racehorse period, but isn't she also hyped to some degree, being that her only true tough race when conditions were not ideal to her was the Preakness...

Respectfully, Tim Ice wants no part of Rachel and would will avoid her at all costs.You think getting whooped by Rachel will help get those broodmares into the breeding shed? I like Summer Bird a whole bunch. Won a lot of money on him in the Belmont and think he is very solid G1 colt. BUT he can't beat Rachel with a head start. As my friend said recently, "Rachel is reminding everyone what a truly good horse is".

[CSC]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Respectfully, Tim Ice wants no part of Rachel and would will avoid her at all costs.You think getting whooped by Rachel will help get those broodmares into the breeding shed? I like Summer Bird a whole bunch. Won a lot of money on him in the Belmont and think he is very solid G1 colt. BUT he can't beat Rachel with a head start. As my friend said recently, "Rachel is reminding everyone what a truly good horse is".

He wasn't avoiding her under less than favorable condtions in the Haskell and he was ready to take her on in the Travers, he's willing to take her on, if Jess Jackson and Ass-man agree I'm sure they will meet.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by tector

Wait, you didn't hear anybody question going 1.25 off a 6.5 prep off a long layoff? What planet have you been on?

If QR is done for this year (and he very well may not be), will it be fair to ask the question then?

This was a rush job. Pletcher has essentially conceded that. If the horse is out because of it, presumably even you will concede it was not the wisest course. I am just saying it now.

i questioned it in every thread. its just horseplayer common sense. yet, 3 out of 4 public handicappers were picking QR. if you compared form in the pp's how do you come up with 6-5 on this horse? other than the hype. summer bird, the derby, win in the belmont, second in the haskell. hes a birdstone so a mile and a eighth is not even his best distance. now hes going a mile and a quarter at the travers his father just won! meanwhile QR won the amsterdam but had not raced in months now hes going to go to the travers, a distance hes NEVER been. personally , i thought anyone taking those odds with those facts was pushing it just a little bit. there was even one thread that said mine that bird would take dumb money and QR would be a good price. QR was a BAD price and could not even beat hold me back!

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by tector

This was a rush job. Pletcher has essentially conceded that. If the horse is out because of it, presumably even you will concede it was not the wisest course. I am just saying it now.

Mr. Pletcher, or his owner, hasn't learned from history.

Back a few years, a very nice colt named Repent looked like a top Derby contender until he came home gasping behind War Emblem's tour de force in the Illinois Derby. He had surgery for a bone chip, was out for several months. He was bred to be a natural 10f horse so his people decided to bring him back in the Travers against a razor-sharp Medaglia d'Oro. Well, Repent gave Md'O everything he wanted, fighting down to the finish to be a close second in the mud. That was it for Repent; he had given his all and he never raced again.

As I recall, the same agenda was followed for Bellamy Road following his defeat in the Derby. He had been emptied out running with a super-fast pace and needed recovery time. Again, they brought him back in the Travers! And again, he ran an honorable second to a horse with race fitness, Flower Alley, and never ran again.

One could argue that having that prep in a sprint race makes this case different from those of Repent and Bellamy Road;that may be, but a horse who is suspect in stamina (which those two weren't), needs more preparation for a such a challenge of his limits.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Mr. Pletcher, or his owner, hasn't learned from history.

Back a few years, a very nice colt named Repent looked like a top Derby contender until he came home gasping behind War Emblem's tour de force in the Illinois Derby. He had surgery for a bone chip, was out for several months. He was bred to be a natural 10f horse so his people decided to bring him back in the Travers against a razor-sharp Medaglia d'Oro. Well, Repent gave Md'O everything he wanted, fighting down to the finish to be a close second in the mud. That was it for Repent; he had given his all and he never raced again.

As I recall, the same agenda was followed for Bellamy Road following his defeat in the Derby. He had been emptied out running with a super-fast pace and needed recovery time. Again, they brought him back in the Travers! And again, he ran an honorable second to a horse with race fitness, Flower Alley, and never ran again.

One could argue that having that prep in a sprint race makes this case different from those of Repent and Bellamy Road;that may be, but a horse who is suspect in stamina (which those two weren't), needs more preparation for a such a challenge of his limits.

Ann if they aren't going to race at 4 your argument holds no water. You only have so moany races of significants to make a stallion. That is the issue in a nutshell.

[CSC]

By the way Freddy,

If I were RA connections I would be awful leary of facing a rapidly improving colt that has already demonstrated he can win at 1 1/4 to 1 1/2, who has won at Belmont, and now has shown a new dimension of being able to be placed closer to the pace when my own filly may have already run her best races and is unproven at 1 1/4. If anyone is afraid I wouldn't side that it's the Summer Bird camp.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by CSC

By the way Freddy,

If I were RA connections I would be awful leary of facing a rapidly improving colt that has already demonstrated he can win at 1 1/4 to 1 1/2, who has won at Belmont, and now has shown a new dimension of being able to be placed closer to the pace when my own filly may have already run her best races and is unproven at 1 1/4. If anyone is afraid I wouldn't side that it's the Summer Bird camp.

Rachel is 10 lengths faster a 10f's. He has zero chance at 9 or 10f's.. ZERO.. Tim Ice knows it and risking the horses potential reputation as a stallion by getting crushed is NOT in the flight plan..

[CSC]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Rachel is 10 lengths faster a 10f's. He has zero chance at 9 or 10f's.. ZERO.. Tim Ice knows it and risking the horses potential reputation as a stallion by getting crushed is NOT in the flight plan..

You know I may sound grumpy and yes I did wake up grumpy this morning, but you gotta love the Rachel love in on this board, I guess you need someone to balance out the opinions here, losing to the greatest filly of all time from what I have read here is not a disgrace(that's assuming she can beat him at Belmont if they meet) and will not detract from his overall legacy as a stallian, he has already stamped that ticket with his win in the Travers yesterday and the Belmont to a lesser degree. Achieving both he most likely will be a Stallian of great demand.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by CSC

You know I may sound grumpy and yes I did wake up grumpy this morning, but you gotta love the Rachel love in on this board, I guess you need someone to balance out the opinions here, losing to the greatest filly of all time from what I have read here is not a disgrace and will not detract from his overall legacy as a stallian, he has already stamped that ticket with his win in the Travers yesterday and the Belmont to a lesser degree.

I have no idea if RA is the greatest of all time nor will I suggest it at this time.
The point is RA is faster then Summer Bird by a lot. I have no idea if RA is better then Personal Ensign, Go for Wand, Winning Colors, or whatever filly from 1941 that Pedigree Ann will enlighten us with. To me its impossible to determine which filly would beat which filly. I do know Summer Bird has zero chance against RA and more importantly so does Tim Ice.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by CSC

You know I may sound grumpy and yes I did wake up grumpy this morning, but you gotta love the Rachel love in on this board, I guess you need someone to balance out the opinions here, losing to the greatest filly of all time from what I have read here is not a disgrace(that's assuming she can beat him at Belmont if they meet) and will not detract from his overall legacy as a stallian, he has already stamped that ticket with his win in the Travers yesterday and the Belmont to a lesser degree. Achieving both he most likely will be a Stallian of great demand.

Speaking of zero risk to reputation.. Zenyatta, a mare that will reside with her current ownership making babies forever, is supposed to be given the opportunity to prove her greatness against Rachel. I have the word of respect for Zenyatta and think she is the only horse that needs to be given an opportunity to attempt to beat Rachel.

Rumor has it that Byk has been working the phones night and day to get this match up done!!

[tector]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Ann if they aren't going to race at 4 your argument holds no water. You only have so moany races of significants to make a stallion. That is the issue in a nutshell.

If he is sound, he still has a an outside shot at the 3YO title, but it would require him to win his next 2 races, with one of them being the BCC, and at least one of them including SB. If they think he can't do that, they will likely put in him the shed. He's got no poly form at all, so that doesn't help. Maybe he should target the Goodwood, too.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Ann if they aren't going to race at 4 your argument holds no water. You only have so moany races of significants to make a stallion. That is the issue in a nutshell.

Neither Repent (Louis Quatorze-Baby Grace, by Cipayo) nor Bellamy Road (Concerto-Hurry Home Hillary, by Deputed Testamony) had a pedigree that had studmasters salivating. No Storm Cat, Danzig, A.P. Indy, or Mr. Prospector, nor sons thereof close up; strictly nonfashionable stuff. Like Silver Charm or Real Quiet, they would not have been missed from the stallion ranks if they had been able to come back at 4. Repent started at $5K and Bellamy Road at $12.5K, neither of which is going to get anybody rich fast.