This is what we will get from Obamacare

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

is the chart that was in that article something he actually did use in lancet?

is this quote incorrect? "Adolescents have received substantial education and parental care, investments that will be wasted without a complete life. Infants, by contrast, have not yet received these investments. . . . As the legal philosopher Ronald Dworkin argues, 'It is terrible when an infant dies, but worse, most people think, when a three-year-old dies and worse still when an adolescent does,' this argument is supported by empirical surveys." (thelancet.com, Jan. 31, 2009)


if the article presents his real quotes, and real ideas, then what does it matter who wrote it?

That a Doctor in this country even thinks this way is frightening, not even taking into consideration that he has the Presidents ear.

That Riot supports him with her "shoot the messenger" retort is typical.

[Danzig]

i just read this in an article about obama-care...


At a town hall hosted by Democratic Rep. Jim Moran this week, one person demanded to know why the threat of medical lawsuits couldn't be reduced.

"There's $200 million dollars in savings over 10 years if we had tort reform and nobody loses but the lawyers," the person said before shouting, "Why have we not even considered that?"

Former Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, a proponent of health reform, responded that tort reform would create more enemies for lawmakers as they try to pass a reform bill.

"Plain and simple truth," he said.

The president of the American Medical Association says without more protections for doctors in the courtroom they will continue to order tests that may be unnecessary and drive up health care costs simply to protect themselves.

[Riot]

This messenger is worth shooting. She was fired just last week from her insurance company lobbying organization over her lack of knowledge about healthcare reform.

You can find the appearance in question on the internet and watch it yourself. It's pretty funny where she read parts of the House bill, and Stewart then points out that it clearly doesn't say what she says it says.

Nice to see WSJ is still giving Betsy, the creator of "the government will kill your grandma!" lie, a voice.

"During her appearance in the “Daily Show” with host Jon Stewart, Betsy McCaughey chewed on a lot more than she could handle. While meandering her way through the interview, her misinformed comments on the “Obama Health Care Reforms” triggered a wide ranging public outcry, with the resulting outcome being McCaughey’s resignation from the Cantel Medical Corp."

McCaughey, being the director of the Cantel Medical Corp., was curiously disillusioned about the basic facts of the reform bills. Which, however, did not deter her from embarking on an outright protest against the same."

[Danzig]

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...uel_lancet.pdf


the intro of the lancet article:



Allocation of very scarce medical interventions such as organs and vaccines is a persistent ethical challenge. We
evaluate eight simple allocation principles that can be classified into four categories: treating people equally, favouring
the worst-off , maximising total benefits, and promoting and rewarding social usefulness. No single principle is
sufficient to incorporate all morally relevant considerations and therefore individual principles must be combined
into multiprinciple allocation systems. We evaluate three systems: the United Network for Organ Sharing points
systems, quality-adjusted life-years, and disability-adjusted life-years. We recommend an alternative system—the
complete lives system—which prioritises younger people who have not yet lived a complete life, and also incorporates
prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value principles.

[Danzig]

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/kee...-not-everyone/


[i]Obama, Aug. 15: f you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan. Nobody is going to force you to leave your health care plan. If you like your doctor, you keep seeing your doctor. I don’t want government bureaucrats meddling in your health care. But the point is, I don’t want insurance company bureaucrats meddling in your health care either.

President Obama has repeatedly said that under the health care overhaul efforts in Congress, "if you like your health care plan, you keep your health care plan." But he can’t make that promise to everyone.

■In fact, under the House bill, some employers might have to modify plans after a five-year grace period if they don’t meet minimum benefits standards.

■Furthermore, some firms are likely to buy different coverage for their workers than they have now, or simply drop coverage and pay a penalty instead, leaving workers to buy their own private coverage or go on a new federal insurance plan

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

This messenger is worth shooting. She was fired just last week from her insurance company lobbying organization over her lack of knowledge about healthcare reform.

You can find the appearance in question on the internet and watch it yourself. It's pretty funny where she read parts of the House bill, and Stewart then points out that it clearly doesn't say what she says it says.

Nice to see WSJ is still giving Betsy, the creator of "the government will kill your grandma!" lie, a voice.

Keep changing the subject....

[dellinger63]

Did I say she was a moron?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Keep changing the subject....

Why is that changing the subject? You quote some proven liar as gospel and then dump on anyone who disputes what she says? Typical neo-con hyporicy. Shovel sh*t and whine about anyone who challenges you.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Why is that changing the subject? You quote some proven liar as gospel and then dump on anyone who disputes what she says? Typical neo-con hyporicy. Shovel sh*t and whine about anyone who challenges you.

Ted Kennedy got caught cheating in college and killed a girl. Joe Biden is an admitted plaigarist. We are forced to listen to them because you guys keep voting for them...

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ted Kennedy got caught cheating in college and killed a girl. Joe Biden is an admitted plaigarist. We are forced to listen to them because you guys keep voting for them...

Forget it...you guys should take notice of why Ted Kennedy was so revered by both sides. He was solid to his liberal base but knew how to be a moderate when needed. That's a huge problem for you haters...if you never want to meet even 25% of the way, you'll just be forgotten

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GBBob

to be a moderate when needed.

the only time I can remember hm being moderate was fighting the wind mills off his property but that shouldn't count. Clarence Thomas was his chance and he failed miserably.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Forget it...you guys should take notice of why Ted Kennedy was so revered by both sides. He was solid to his liberal base but knew how to be a moderate when needed. That's a huge problem for you haters...if you never want to meet even 25% of the way, you'll just be forgotten

Ted Kennedy was as partisan as any politician. He was great at being a politician. We arent haters, we are concerned citizens who worry about the path this country is headed down. As critical as you want to be about Bush, the war, Gitmo etc, the fact is that those policies are easily reversed, the tax cuts expire, the wars end. But this administration is doing things that CANT be reversed or changed even if they prove to be a disaster to the entire country. This isnt about some terrorist in a distant prison. It is about the American way of life and our system of capitalism. Saying that we dont want to meet in the middle is totally wrong and myopic. The middle isnt being offered. It wasnt offered in the stimlus debate and it isnt being offered now.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ted Kennedy got caught cheating in college and killed a girl.

Did he kill the girl he was cheating with or on?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Did he kill the girl he was cheating with or on?

With. Though he did a USC football move at Harvard by having someone else take a test for him.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Why is that changing the subject? You quote some proven liar as gospel and then dump on anyone who disputes what she says? Typical neo-con hyporicy. Shovel sh*t and whine about anyone who challenges you.

Thanks. Nice to know someone else is noticing this.