Sea the Stars

[CSC]

It now looks like Stacelita is the value bet for the Arc if she is indeed pointed that way, you have to respect Sea the Stars anywhere he races and it will take 'the performance' to beat him if he runs to his potential in the Arc.

Here is video of her in the Prix de Diane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilwQfVG-X5A

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by CSC

It now looks like Stacelita is the value bet for the Arc if she is indeed pointed that way, you have to respect Sea the Stars anywhere he races and it will take 'the performance' to beat him if he runs to his potential in the Arc.

Here is video of her in the Prix de Diane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilwQfVG-X5A

I don't think Sea The Stars would go to the Arc now, there is little point now that 10 furlongs has been confirmed as his optimum trick. He's been at a mile and won, he's been at 12 furlongs and won, but he looks much more comfortable at 10.

Even if he was to go to the Arc, none of the fillies would concern me at all. As I've mentioned just lately, it looks like a very weak division this year. All much of a muchness with the odd couple just being that little bit better.

Sariska is nothing out of the ordinary (in my opinion) but look how easily she won the Irish Oaks...... but what did she beat?? Same with Stacelita.

Moving back to STS, I heard he smashed the track record yesterday, and yet both Mick (Kinane) and John Oxx commented after the race that the pacemakers for Ballydoyle didn't go quick enough for him. He appears to be a freak, an absolute superstar. Which brings me onto the question...... is there anything in the world that can beat him this year?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

I don't think Sea The Stars would go to the Arc now, there is little point now that 10 furlongs has been confirmed as his optimum trick. He's been at a mile and won, he's been at 12 furlongs and won, but he looks much more comfortable at 10.

Moving back to STS, I heard he smashed the track record yesterday, and yet both Mick (Kinane) and John Oxx commented after the race that the pacemakers for Ballydoyle didn't go quick enough for him. He appears to be a freak, an absolute superstar. Which brings me onto the question...... is there anything in the world that can beat him this year?

I think it would be very hard for Sea The Stars to resist an effort in Europe's most prestigous race. Don't forget he's also out of Urban Sea a former Arc winner, pedigree should not be an issue. From what I have seen of him and that's only from whatever I can dig up on the net, he's certainly in the class of High Chapparal and maybe even better. Time will tell, undefeated Stacelita is an exciting prospect and would it really be a surprise if she can reproduce what Zarkava did? It wouldn't surprise me.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think it would be very hard for Sea The Stars to resist an effort in Europe's most prestigous race. Don't forget he's also out of Urban Sea a former Arc winner, pedigree should not be an issue. From what I have seen of him and that's only from whatever I can dig up on the net, he's certainly in the class of High Chapparal and maybe even better. Time will tell, undefeated Stacelita is an exciting prospect and would it really be a surprise if she can reproduce what Zarkava did? It wouldn't surprise me.

But he requires fast ground to be at his best. The last couple of years' the ground on Arc day haven't been too bad, but the norm is softish ground. There is no point prepping him for that race (ruling out any of the other top autumn races) and then the ground comes up soft.

Cape Cross throws a lot of speed into the pedigree, and judging from his Guineas win, he does have a lot of pace. Connections even said that his class probably won him the Derby, not his staying credentials.

He will also be a much better stallion if he sticks to ten furlongs. These twelve furlong horses are now deemed too slow in this modern day.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

But he requires fast ground to be at his best. The last couple of years' the ground on Arc day haven't been too bad, but the norm is softish ground. There is no point prepping him for that race (ruling out any of the other top autumn races) and then the ground comes up soft.

Cape Cross throws a lot of speed into the pedigree, and judging from his Guineas win, he does have a lot of pace. Connections even said that his class probably won him the Derby, not his staying credentials.

He will also be a much better stallion if he sticks to ten furlongs. These twelve furlong horses are now deemed too slow in this modern day.

My viewpoint is I would just love to see the best horses run in the best races, I think too much emphasis is made on surfaces, type of ground, protecting one's record these days that the 'sport' of it all has somehow become lost.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

But he requires fast ground to be at his best. The last couple of years' the ground on Arc day haven't been too bad, but the norm is softish ground. There is no point prepping him for that race (ruling out any of the other top autumn races) and then the ground comes up soft.

Cape Cross throws a lot of speed into the pedigree, and judging from his Guineas win, he does have a lot of pace. Connections even said that his class probably won him the Derby, not his staying credentials.

He will also be a much better stallion if he sticks to ten furlongs. These twelve furlong horses are now deemed too slow in this modern day.

These statements confuse me. What difference does it make who his sire and dam are once he's already shown he can do it? What difference does it make whether he won the race on class or credentials or even on good luck? He got it done and that's what matters. How will sticking to 10f make him any better of a stallion? If they ran him exclusivley at 12f or more for the rest of his career, would that lessen what he did at 8f and 10f? Would people forget those accomplisments? It wouldn't be a situation like Jazil, a horse that was nothing but a distance horse here and showed no speed at all. He's shown he can win a grade one at 8f so we know the speed is there if called upon.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

These statements confuse me. What difference does it make who his sire and dam are once he's already shown he can do it? What difference does it make whether he won the race on class or credentials or even on good luck? He got it done and that's what matters. How will sticking to 10f make him any better of a stallion? If they ran him exclusivley at 12f or more for the rest of his career, would that lessen what he did at 8f and 10f? Would people forget those accomplisments? It wouldn't be a situation like Jazil, a horse that was nothing but a distance horse here and showed no speed at all. He's shown he can win a grade one at 8f so we know the speed is there if called upon.

This industry is a money making industry. The big guns don't class it as a sport any longer. There is no patience amongst breeders, they love to breed speed. Of course it matters. As soon as a horse wins over 2400m these days people deem them to be a bit slow. It isn't the case, however, that fails to alter peoples opinion in the breeding industry.

Fact is, in the modern era, these horses make more each day during the breeding season than some do in a whole career. I'd love to say it isn't about the money, but it is.

I don't believe running in the Arc would give the horse any more credentials. Connections have said time and time again that he wouldn't want it soft. As much as track conditions shouldn't be an issue, we will never get away from them. Is there any point in prepping him specifically for the Arc, the ground comes up heavy and then he is forced to miss other Autumn races because he has been campaigned for that race in mind?

On another note, with Sariska beaten yesterday (probably another ground related issue) that could just well confirm how the three year old fillies are nothing more than a mediocre bunch this year.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

This industry is a money making industry. The big guns don't class it as a sport any longer. There is no patience amongst breeders, they love to breed speed. Of course it matters. As soon as a horse wins over 2400m these days people deem them to be a bit slow. It isn't the case, however, that fails to alter peoples opinion in the breeding industry.

Fact is, in the modern era, these horses make more each day during the breeding season than some do in a whole career. I'd love to say it isn't about the money, but it is.

I don't believe running in the Arc would give the horse any more credentials. Connections have said time and time again that he wouldn't want it soft. As much as track conditions shouldn't be an issue, we will never get away from them. Is there any point in prepping him specifically for the Arc, the ground comes up heavy and then he is forced to miss other Autumn races because he has been campaigned for that race in mind?

On another note, with Sariska beaten yesterday (probably another ground related issue) that could just well confirm how the three year old fillies are nothing more than a mediocre bunch this year.

I get what you are trying to say but again, it's not like he hasn't proven that he indeed has speed. It would be one thing if he had broken his maiden say at 10f and had been running in 12f ever since. But he's won a grade one race at a mile. So there's no way that any breeders would see him as only a plodder who needs distance to excel. He could run in 16f races for the rest of his days and I don't see how that would take away from the fact that he still won that 8f grade one or make people think he has any less speed. Chances are, if the biggest money was in sprints and miles, he'd be trained for them and still be the best horse in the world. Breeders know he has speed no matter where else he runs for the rest of his career. As for your other reasoning as to why the Arc may not be in the cards for him, I agree with you.