The sad cost of war

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Fox News hasn't demonstrated much accuracy to me in relaying the content of the various health care bill permutations working their way through committee. The falsehoods and misassumptions are rampant.

Private insurance companies will not go anywhere unless people who use private insurance companies choose to no longer use them.

The health care bill is intended to cover only a [relatively] small amount of Americans.

I find it strange that many of the most publically rabid opponents of any health care bill are not consistent in their beliefs, and are not campaigning in favor of eliminating all government-run "socialist" medicine, such as Medicare, Medicade, and the Veterans programs.

For a supposedly business friendly Republican you take an awful lot of anti-business stances. For a program that is only "intended to cover a small amount of Americans", a few trillion is pretty hefty price no?

The idea that anyone who doesnt agree with the policy coming down from the mountaintop is spreading falsehoods and lies is ironic. The fact is that this is going to be exactly what it looks like, a huge boondoggle that eats up everything along the way and becomes so large that it simply exists to live and lives to exist. This is just another part of a radical agenda. The fact that Medicare and Medicade are so screwed up and inefficent should be warning enough that this **** they are trying to squeeze through will be miles worse. Not to mention the negative effect it will have on American small business which as usual will be forced to carry an unfair burden.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is just another part of a radical agenda.

Radical? So, most civilized countries in the world are radical? Let me tell you something about this country that is radical. We are way out of the norm as far as immigration goes. We are radical on that. There is no excuse for it. Other countries do not just let anybody come there n' play house as long as they'd like to stay. This Health Care stuff is not radical. It's the same shared risk stuff that most other countries think is the right thing to do. This is not cutting edge "radical" stuff, but this is exactly how things get turned around by the self-centered folks in our society. We voted on this. That's a huge part of what that election was about. Seems like Conservatives thought the guy was just kiding. Why didn't you people work like dogs when we had the Presidential Election? You knew he wanted to get everyone insured. He won. This is like children having a fit when they have to actually walk the dog that they so convincingly promised to take care of. You don't have any solutions to this problem. None. There is a big problem. Your party has ignored it, and only comes alive to fight a solution you don't agree with. That's simply not an answer to the problem. The real reason you couldn't win that election is you had a candidate who only knows how to lead resistance. People need solutions. He was a big fat zero at coming up with solutions to problems. 90%of what you Conservative folks write on here is fighting someone's idea of how to solve a problem. Very little solutions are ever brought up by Conservatives. Tax breaks for the rich ain't the ointment to solve these health care problems. It just isn't. What should of been done by Republicans in Congress is to get something you want from the President. Demand he throw every tool possible at stoping illegal immigration. That seems a reasonable demand (since it's Americans that should be getting insured...not some kid that somebody illegally jumped a wall to have born here.)

[SCUDSBROTHER]

He's gunna have to grow a set, and attach it to a budget bill (so that it can pass under budget reconciliation rules.) Enough with the Kumbaya bullshit. They've got filthy lobbying money from insurance companies contaminating the whole issue. So, if reconciliation is ugly, then fine. All they ever want is war. They understand ugly. They only understand force n' power. So be it. Just do it. They don't want to negotiate. When you get done, punish that Blue-Dog Bitch from Lousiana. She's a crook like her Daddy.

[Riot]

For a supposedly business friendly Republican you take an awful lot of anti-business stances. For a program that is only "intended to cover a small amount of Americans", a few trillion is pretty hefty price no?

What's "anti-business" about wanting people to be able to afford, and to have, health care?

That "few trillion" is one trillion over 10 years. Less than 1% of our budget.

The idea that anyone who doesnt agree with the policy coming down from the mountaintop is spreading falsehoods and lies is ironic.

?? I haven't said that. I have said that FoxNews hasn't been accurately relaying what's in the various parts of the various bills making way through Committee, and that's certainly true. You have to know what the options are, before you can debate them.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

What's "anti-business" about wanting people to be able to afford, and to have, health care?

That "few trillion" is one trillion over 10 years. Less than 1% of our budget.



?? I haven't said that. I have said that FoxNews hasn't been accurately relaying what's in the various parts of the various bills making way through Committee, and that's certainly true. You have to know what the options are, before you can debate them.

It would "right neighborly" of the Dems to be real transparent and put out the 1000 page legislation for public dissemination....

[SOREHOOF]

Don't worry, they'll tell us what they think it says.

[SOREHOOF]

Medical benefits extended to illegals? Let me get my wallet. No tax increases for people making under $250,000? I better quit smoking. How involved do you want the Govt. involved in your life? When they are providing your healthcare they will be telling you exactly how to live your life.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

Medical benefits extended to illegals? Let me get my wallet. No tax increases for people making under $250,000? I better quit smoking. How involved do you want the Govt. involved in your life? When they are providing your healthcare they will be telling you exactly how to live your life.

the more the govt gives you, the more they can take away....

you did see that the sec/treas now says a tax increase is likely, that the deficit will keep our economy down. that an increase will help get rid of our deepening hole. so much for that obama promise...

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the more the govt gives you, the more they can take away....

you did see that the sec/treas now says a tax increase is likely, that the deficit will keep our economy down. that an increase will help get rid of our deepening hole. so much for that obama promise...

There was never a doubt in my mind that a tax increase was coming. With less and less people working they have to raise taxes on everyone else just to break even. The unemployment rate in my house just reached 50%.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

the more the govt gives you, the more they can take away....

you did see that the sec/treas now says a tax increase is likely, that the deficit will keep our economy down. that an increase will help get rid of our deepening hole. so much for that obama promise...

And Obama came out afterwards and said no, that will not happen. We'll see.

Clinton gave Bush a low and dwindling deficit. All Bush had to do was keep going with current policy, and there would be NO budget deficit. That would have been achieved during the Bush administration.

But no, he had to go start wars ....

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

It would "right neighborly" of the Dems to be real transparent and put out the 1000 page legislation for public dissemination....

I think this is the one. Not easy to find bills if you don't know the #.http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...1c8iPU8:e1562:

[SOREHOOF]

Sec 104.a is interesting.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

It would "right neighborly" of the Dems to be real transparent and put out the 1000 page legislation for public dissemination....

You could just pay attention to what is being discussed quite openly and publically in the news media:

No single payer.
No euthanizing old people.
No giving up your regular insurance, doctor, hospitals.
No involvement at all unless you choose to be involved.
No "trillions of dollars"
No government official dictating your health care to you.

No change at all to the 80% of Americans that have private health insurance now. None. Zero. Zip.

For the 20% of your fellow Americans that do not now have health insurance, that are costing emergency rooms millions of dollars, who have no wellness health care at all, who are unable to afford huge private health insurance monthly premium payments or get insured again because they have had cancer, endocrine disease, etc and their private carrier refused to pay, or rescinded their policy to get out of paying for a permanent health problem on an ongoing basis - you will be able to afford health insurance. And you will not be excluded for pre-existing conditions.

Because we are a country that takes care of our own.

And for the 80% of people that are now insured - at your next big claim, when you ask your insurance company to pay but they suddenly refuse to pay and/or they rescind you - well, you can get insured again, too, if you like.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You could just pay attention to what is being discussed quite openly and publically in the news media:

No single payer.
No euthanizing old people.
No giving up your regular insurance, doctor, hospitals.
No involvement at all unless you choose to be involved.
No "trillions of dollars"
No government official dictating your health care to you.

No change at all to the 80% of Americans that have private health insurance now. None. Zero. Zip.

For the 20% of your fellow Americans that do not now have health insurance, that are costing emergency rooms millions of dollars, who have no wellness health care at all, who are unable to afford huge private health insurance monthly premium payments or get insured again because they have had cancer, endocrine disease, etc and their private carrier refused to pay, or rescinded their policy to get out of paying for a permanent health problem on an ongoing basis - you will be able to afford health insurance. And you will not be excluded for pre-existing conditions.

Because we are a country that takes care of our own.

And for the 80% of people that are now insured - at your next big claim, when you ask your insurance company to pay but they suddenly refuse to pay and/or they rescind you - well, you can get insured again, too, if you like.

and illegals.

I love the situation OB & Co. find themselves in right now. If this mess gets passed he, Reid and Pelosi will be blamed for every health care complaint in the future whether rightfully or not. If it doesn't pass well then he failed. The hypocrisy of thinking anyone opposing this is a shill, Nazi etc. and then trying to suppress free speech and assembly by having citizens report on each other and using bullies at town meetings has been especially enjoyable.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

and illegals.

I love the situation OB & Co. find themselves in right now. If this mess gets passed he, Reid and Pelosi will be blamed for every health care complaint in the future whether rightfully or not. If it doesn't pass well then he failed. The hypocrisy of thinking anyone opposing this is a shill, Nazi etc. and then trying to suppress free speech and assembly by having citizens report on each other and using bullies at town meetings has been especially enjoyable.

You really need to get a grip on what's really happening out there, and not what Glenn Beck is screeching about.

There is no "citizens reporting on each other".

The only bullies at town halls are the rowdy people yelling and taking over the town hall and preventing everyone else from talking. They are the ones suppressing free speech.

The only people using the words "Nazi" appears to be some members of the ultra-right, slinging that one at Obama (which is absurd beyond belief, as there is nothing more "far right wingnut" than a white supremacist)

Nobody is calling the bullies Nazi, as you contend. Nobody is calling anybody opposing healthcare Nazi's.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

You really need to get a grip on what's really happening out there, and not what Glenn Beck is screeching about.

There is no "citizens reporting on each other".

The only bullies at town halls are the rowdy people yelling and taking over the town hall and preventing everyone else from talking. They are the ones suppressing free speech.

The only people using the words "Nazi" appears to be some members of the ultra-right, slinging that one at Obama (which is absurd beyond belief, as there is nothing more "far right wingnut" than a white supremacist)

Nobody is calling the bullies Nazi, as you contend. Nobody is calling anybody opposing healthcare Nazi's.

i read earlier today that gore has likened the battle against global warming and those who don't believe that humans cause said warming to fighting the nazis in ww2. i guess he thinks he's the modern day winston churchill.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

You really need to get a grip on what's really happening out there, and not what Glenn Beck is screeching about.

There is no "citizens reporting on each other".

The only bullies at town halls are the rowdy people yelling and taking over the town hall and preventing everyone else from talking. They are the ones suppressing free speech.

The only people using the words "Nazi" appears to be some members of the ultra-right, slinging that one at Obama (which is absurd beyond belief, as there is nothing more "far right wingnut" than a white supremacist)

Nobody is calling the bullies Nazi, as you contend. Nobody is calling anybody opposing healthcare Nazi's.

When did Pelosi switch to the ultra right? She's the one using the word Nazi as did Durbin describing our soilders at Gitmo. No Riot is wrong again as usual unless the video and audio were photo-shopped.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...astikas .html

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

What's "anti-business" about wanting people to be able to afford, and to have, health care?

That "few trillion" is one trillion over 10 years. Less than 1% of our budget.



?? I haven't said that. I have said that FoxNews hasn't been accurately relaying what's in the various parts of the various bills making way through Committee, and that's certainly true. You have to know what the options are, before you can debate them.

Understand the issues and we can discuss them. If you cant understand the negative impact on small business (really small businesses, $500k/25 employees not $50 million dollar revenue small businesses) then there is no need to further discuss with you. Build a campfire and sing kumbaya.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Understand the issues and we can discuss them. If you cant understand the negative impact on small business (really small businesses, $500k/25 employees not $50 million dollar revenue small businesses) then there is no need to further discuss with you. Build a campfire and sing kumbaya.

and if that doesn't work click your heels together and say, "there's no place like home"

[Cannon Shell]

While this doesnt meet the standard set by Dala it does pose some interesting questions

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...are-estimates/