Jeter vs Dye for MVP

[Gander]

Because the Red Sox are quitting slobs. Thats why!

Mariano only usually pitches in games with the Yankees leading or tied at worst. He doesnt do as much as Santana does in the games he pitches. That is not even arguable.

Who cares about MVP's anyways? The only thing that matters is winning the World Series.

Originally Posted by Gander

Because the Red Sox are quitting slobs. Thats why!

Mariano only usually pitches in games with the Yankees leading or tied at worst. He doesnt do as much as Santana does in the games he pitches. That is not even arguable.

Who cares about MVP's anyways? The only thing that matters is winning the World Series.

Well if hr's mattered so much then Giambi would be the MVP of the Yankees and it just aint so.
The all around game of a player is the key.
And pitchers only pitch 30-40 times. That aint enough to get an award vs guys who play every day.
Dh's don't have to play the field and have no business winning it either.

[Gander]

I disagree but thats just my right as an American tax payer! And I hope your not trying to compare Giambi with Dye as hitters. Dye is batting a very nice .321. Not sure what Giambi is batting but I will take a gander its at least 70 points below Dye's average. Dye is the complete package, an excellent fielder to boot. I wont go into my opinion of Giambi. You all know it and frankly its as tired as dscussing polycrap.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

The only reason people care about this is because Ortiz started running his mouth about it.Ortiz probably deserves this,but I would never vote for anybody on that team for anything this year.You shut it down on the 25th of August.and you deserve nothing,and your players deserve nothing.If they want one of their players to get an award,they will get their a$$ back into to atleast pinch hit in games.I do not think Jeter has done enough.If he was so valuable,then he wouldn't be batting 2nd would he? No.So,don't tell us he would have more RBIs if he was batting 4th.His manager would bat him 4th if he was their most valuable hitter.It is a lame argument to say "if he was batting somewhere else." Anybody but those 2 (Ortiz,and Jeter)is fine with me.Atleast Ortiz has the numbers.Folks,you aren't the most valuable player unless your shooting the ball out of the park atleast 35 times a season.You just aren't.To say someboidy with less than 35 jaks is MVP material,is simply a large media push.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Jeter will be either first or second in the batting title, has played outstanding short all year, and will have over 100 RBI's hitting second. What more would you like him to do? Again, I think either he or Dye should get it, but I think Jeter's season has been a definite MVP type year.

Like I said ..........minimum 35 jaks a year.You don't like that? Too bad.Powerful people are valuable.They damage.Halos survived many a single and double that little Jeter got off them.If those had been jaks,you wouldn't be wondering why the Halos have beaten you 9 times in 1 calendar year.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Well you edited your post, after to include the 35, or I would have mentioned it. I personally can't stand the Yankees, I am not a fan, as I said earlier so this isn't grandstanding. Power is indeed important, but I'd take Jeter over anyone in the game right now. His numbers are there, but it's the intangibles that make him special. And actually I don't think power wins games. Good pitching, good defense and timely hitting wins games.

Mainly,it's good pitching that wins games,and Oracle is gunna get that thru his head when Haren,Contreras,Santana etc. beat the Yanks in the post.That 3 hitter that Haren threw today was gunna be that way regardless of the team at bat.He will realize that soon enough.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm with you on pitching. I usually am fighting with Yankee fans this time of year, because I am so sure they will get beat in the playoffs. But I'm not so sure this year. I don't think the White Sox are going to get in. Which leaves Minn, who cannot beat them in a series with no Liriano. Detroit has had a great year, but I am troubled by the way they are finishing the year off. The Angels can beat them and have shown they can. It's the Yanks or Angels in the World Series in my opinion.

Angels aren't getting it done offensively,and quite frankly Mike has done a lot of stupid things this year.Take today,for instance,Saunders has been horrible each time on 4 days rest,but they start him anyways.Then he gets lit up,and has no control,and they don't take him out until there are like 6 or 7 runs given up.Pretty retarded.If I didn't know better,I would think Mike had 10k on the CHISOX,or he bet the over.The guy has been great on 5 days rest.Hell,ask Oracle.He beat them on a Friday night in New York(5 days rest,)and then got shelled by them on a Sunday in Anaheim(on 4 days rest.)

BTW,I do think the Chisox will get in.All 3 pitchers the last 3 games pitched well.Contreras wasn't gunna be hit by anybody.Not sure about the other 2.The Halos are pretty much women at the plate half the time,but for sure Contreras was a witch on Monday Night.

[Gander]

In summation, relievers like Riviera come into games to protect leads created by dominant pitchers like Santana. The starters do the hard work and the relievers simply protect leads. Important and necessary? Yes. But lets be realistic, Riviera isnt exactly having a career year and check out most of the leads he has to protect...usually at minimum 2-3 run leads.

And to compare a player like Jermaine Dye with Jason Giambi is absurd and that quite frankly is putting it very nicely.

Originally Posted by Gander

In summation, relievers like Riviera come into games to protect leads created by dominant pitchers like Santana. The starters do the hard work and the relievers simply protect leads. Important and necessary? Yes. But lets be realistic, Riviera isnt exactly having a career year and check out most of the leads he has to protect...usually at minimum 2-3 run leads.

And to compare a player like Jermaine Dye with Jason Giambi is absurd and that quite frankly is putting it very nicely.

Noone was comparing Dye with Giambi Tim. Only you are.
What I was saying was that the argument that power outshines overall performance is absurd and I said if power were what mattered most, then Giambi would be the MVP of the Yankee team, which is absurd.
Power is only one component of the game. And the position in which you batcertainly has an effect on your hr's and rbi's. Jeter used to hit a lot more hr's, hes below his career average this year. But when you bat 2nd its a different role. Your job is to advance the leadoff hitter if he gets on base in the first inning, or if he doesn't get on you are supposed to get yourself on through a walk or hit to set it up for the power guys behind you.
RBI's are tough to come by when you are in that slot and the RBI's you do get often take place if the 7th, 8th, or 9th hitter gets on base.
As a matter of fact i was using Giambi as an example that power is not the most important thing. Dye is having a great year, no doubt, and is a deserving candidate.
But to mention Santana flies in the face of what I feel is baseball logic.
Pitchers only play every 5th game, and I will always feel that they can never be more valuable than an every day player. Dye and Jeter have certainly won more games for their teams than Santana did for his. Dh's I feel strongly about as well. Dh's simply don't have to play the field which gives them much more energy within a game and allows them to focus strictly on batting practice rather than fielding practice as well. Dh's are vital to AL teams but a guy like jeter who hits as well as goes out there and makes greta plays and turns double plays has twice the impact of a DH.
I'm one of those stick in the mud guys who feels that the MVP should go to an every day player and not a DH.