Who thinks...

Originally Posted by somerfrost

The problem BB isn't on the home front, the problem is that we've gained little abroad. I agree that we've opened a very large can of whoop-as-s on Al Queda and greatly reduced their ability to carry out covert operations in America but back to my statements about evil....while we are making their lives a living hell, we are doing little to address the recruitment of new terrorists. There has to be a game plan and it has to be long term and public! We must demand greater freedom for the disadvantaged folks of the region...once they start to have a little hope and see that it was the US who went public and tightened the screws on their leaders, it will be harder to convince them that blowing up schools or crashing planes will make their peoples' lives better. The terrorists of today must be destroyed...not compromised with or reasoned with...destroyed! But at the same time, we must stop the influx of young hopeless folks into their ranks...you don't do that by occupying Iraq or laying in bed with certain Arab despots!

Sure ... everything you write is correct ...

... and what better way is there to provide hope for a better life to anyone ... anywhere ... than to promote democracy and capitalism?

Do you know something better than that?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Sure ... everything you write is correct ...

... and what better way is there to provide hope for a better life to anyone ... anywhere ... than to promote democracy and capitalism?

Do you know something better than that?

Yes, like the one we promote in Saudi Arabia. Or the one we promoted in Congo. Right BB? lol

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Yes, like the one we promote in Saudi Arabia. Or the one we promoted in Congo. Right BB? lol

Or the ones we promoted in Germany, Japan, Italy, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Georgia, Armenia, Turkey, Mongolia, Taiwan, South Korea, The Phillipines, Nicagargua, El Salvador, Chile, Grenada, Slovenia, Croatia, Greece, Macedonia, Israel, Spain, South Africa ... ?

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Sure ... everything you write is correct ...

... and what better way is there to provide hope for a better life to anyone ... anywhere ... than to promote democracy and capitalism?

Do you know something better than that?

I agree about democracy but capitalism has it's flaws...again, I go back to the distribution of wealth...it won't help the poor folks if we substitute some Arab despot for their version of Bill Gates. While they'll be able to vote and have at least a chance to better their standard of living while not living in fear of the knock on the door, the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" will someday have to narrow if we are all to live togther on one planet!

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I agree about democracy but capitalism has it's flaws...again, I go back to the distribution of wealth...it won't help the poor folks if we substitute some Arab despot for their version of Bill Gates.

Say what?

"We" didn't create Bill Gates ... he created himself ... and governments of capitalist economies don't assign success or failure to anyone.

Bill Gates directly created tens of thousands of jobs ... and indirectly created millions more.

Yeah ... I think having a Bill Gates ... lots of them in fact ... might help the "poor folks" ... don't you?

Originally Posted by somerfrost

... the gap between the "haves" and "have nots" will someday have to narrow if we are all to live togther on one planet!

Sorry ... but that's nonsense ...

... as long as I'm content with what I have .. why should I care what others have?

Nothing provides general contentment like the wealth generated by the efficiency of free-market capitalist economies.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Sorry ... but that's nonsense ...

... as long as I'm content with what I have .. why should I care what others have?

Nothing provides general contentment like the wealth generated by the efficiency of free-market capitalist economies.

When you have nothing you tend to care! This revisiting of trickle-down won't cut it. I actually like Bill Gates, seems like a good guy who donates billions to charity and certainly has created jobs...but who needs a hundred billion dollars? Answer...the poor folks who exist in the "other America". Sorry but we will never have peace until everybody gets some degree of hope. And that goes for the "third world" as well...when we actually give a damn about a starving child in some country that doesn't promote our "national interest" and when we care about AIDS destroying entire cultures, then maybe the world will feel differently about us!

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Answer...the poor folks who exist in the "other America". Sorry but we will never have peace until everybody gets some degree of hope.

I hesitate to tell you this ... because you're not gonna believe it but ...

... there are no "poor" people in the United States today ... excepting a small percentage of the small percentage who have disabling physical or mental handicaps.

No one is poor who has indoor plumbing, sanitary water, electricity, wholesome food, adequate shelter, warm clothing, access to impartial justice, access to advanced medical care, access to education, access to libraries, police protection, fire protection, and the right to vote ... all of which virtually 100% of Americans have.

Not to mention such luxuries as refrigerators, radios, telephones, and televisions which nearly all Americans have ... and bicycles, automobiles, and computers which overwhelming percentages have. Over 70% ... and rising ... of all Americans own the dwelling unit in which they live ... something unprecedented in human history.

You may know where there's an "other" America ... but it doesn't currently exist on the North American continent.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

I hesitate to tell you this ... because you're not gonna believe it but ...

... there are no "poor" people in the United States today ... excepting a small percentage of the small percentage who have disabling physical or mental handicaps.

No one is poor who has indoor plumbing, sanitary water, electricity, wholesome food, adequate shelter, warm clothing, access to impartial justice, access to advanced medical care, access to education, access to libraries, police protection, fire protection, and the right to vote ... all of which virtually 100% of Americans have.

Not to mention such luxuries as refrigerators, radios, telephones, and televisions which nearly all Americans have ... and bicycles, automobiles, and computers which overwhelming percentages have. Over 70% ... and rising ... of all Americans own the dwelling unit in which they live ... something unprecedented in human history.

You may know where there's an "other" America ... but it doesn't currently exist on the North American continent.

Don't get out much do you? Ever notice the people sleeping in boxes on the street or the ones who crash in empty buildings to stay warm? They aren't all drug addicts! Ever traveled much in rural West Virginia and the other Appalachian states...get off the highways and hit the dirt roads, you'll find folks living in shacks with no electric or heat except from the wood stove in the corner. Vote? Many can't read or write...vote for what? Check out the subways, the large city sewer systems...you'll be surprised what you'll find...there are people living there and they have nothing, zero, zip, nada aside from the clothes on their back and a few things they can carry...sorry my man, your emperor has no clothes!

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Don't get out much do you? Ever notice the people sleeping in boxes on the street or the ones who crash in empty buildings to stay warm? They aren't all drug addicts! Ever traveled much in rural West Virginia and the other Appalachian states...get off the highways and hit the dirt roads, you'll find folks living in shacks with no electric or heat except from the wood stove in the corner. Vote? Many can't read or write...vote for what? Check out the subways, the large city sewer systems...you'll be surprised what you'll find...there are people living there and they have nothing, zero, zip, nada aside from the clothes on their back and a few things they can carry...sorry my man, your emperor has no clothes!

My opinion is somewhere in the middle. I think that there are jobs for anyone that wants to work. I see signs all over town saying "Now Hiring" and "Help Wanted" and that type of thing. Granted many of these jobs are not great jobs. Many of them only pay $8.00 and $9.00 an hour. For someone to really support themselves on that kind of income, they really need two jobs if they live in an expensive city like Los Angeles. I know a guy who is a doorman at a high-rise condominium. He makes about $9 an hour. He has another job too. I think his other job is as a security guard or something like that. This guy is not the brightest guy in the world. He's not really capable of having a better job. Anyway, he works 80 hours a week. I guess between the two jobs he makes about $35,000 a year. This guy is around 50 years old. He doesn't have a college education. He works a lot of hours and he doesn't make much money but he doesn't have it so bad. He rents an apartment, he has a car, he has a television, he has a VCR, he goes on a little vacation every year. This is a guy whose IQ is probably 90 and he is not well educated. Yet his standard of living is still probably higher than 90% of the people in the world. I think he even has a cell phone.

Anyway, the point is that there are plenty of jobs out there for people that want to work. They may not be great jobs but an $8 an hour job is better than nothing.

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Ever notice the people sleeping in boxes on the street or the ones who crash in empty buildings to stay warm? They aren't all drug addicts!

You're correct ...

... most of them are winos.