Keeneland September Sale

Originally Posted by Danzig188

coolmore got a danzig as well:


Coolmore gets its Danzig


A few hours after being outbid for the sale-topping colt by Danzig, John Magnier got the other top colt from the last crop of that great sire and sire of sires, going to $5.2-million for a colt out of the Roberto mare Al Theraab. Consigned by Dave Parrish's Indian Creek as agent, the bay is half brother to two stakes winners by Danzig's best sire son Danehill.

"He's a nice Danzig, isn't he?" said Demi O'Byrne, who signed the ticket for the partnership that includes Magnier and Michael Tabor. "He's from the last crop of a great sire of sires and he's really a great deal like him."

Of course he's going to spin it that way....Danehill is Danzig's only real success at stud...period....even Rock of Gibraltar's first crop is VERY average considering the book of mares he got over there across the pond....very average.....

I respect that you like him and thats fine, as he was a great RACEHORSE stallion and is very good on the broodmare side...his shortcomings have come as a sire of sires though.....Demi is just upset that he hasn't been able to match strides with the Shieks so far at this sale and this colt is the only "big" horse that he has gotten to this point, so what do you think hes going to say to make his purchase look ingenious?

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

It shouldn't hurt their prices too much because if a horse has a chip and you buy it then X-ray afterward and find a chip, you can turn it back and not pay for the horse....
I never X-ray horses anymore UNTIL I buy them because it cost too much money X-raying every damn horse you may be interested in....you wait and buy them and THEN you x-ray them after they get out of the ring and if they don't vet out you turn them back to the seller and don't pay....

....

Not At Keeneland for the yearling sale if you buy one and he has got a chip he yours. that is why every yearling has to have a set of X rays in the repository.

Now if you buy a yearling and re xray it and find a chip and that same chip is not on the consignors xrays in the repository then you can return it.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Not At Keeneland for the yearling sale if you buy one and he has got a chip he yours. that is why every yearling has to have a set of X rays in the repository.

Now if you buy a yearling and re xray it and find a chip and that same chip is not on the consignors xrays in the repository then you can return it.

I believe you are correct. They have different rules at different sales. At some sales, it is your responsibility to check the x-rays in the repository. If you don't check and then realize that the horse has a chip, it's too bad. You're stuck with the horse. You can only return the horse if they have a new injury that did not show up on the original x-rays.

At other sales, you don't need to have the horse vetted until after you buy the horse. If the horse has a fracture or chip you can void the purchase.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Guys, guys, guys!!!...I'll Get Along sold a couple of years ago for many millions of dollars to the group that just sold this full to Smarty Jones....I GUARANTEE you that they knew what they were selling and had a reserve on her that was relavent to her value....that, I can assure you of.....these guys aren't stupid and they just didn't get rid of her because they needed the money....she had to have been well sold for that prce or they would not have done that, especially considering the millions they spent on I'll Get Along after Smarty's fame....

I guarantee you that she has some serious issues with her somewhere that provided for a lot of risk with her.....

i figured as much. i knew that the dam was snapped up when smarty hit the trail...no way this was in their plan, but it certainly happens to all those involved in this sport at some point.

I think its becoming obvious that the only way to now attempt to become successful in this game is to start your own breeding operation.
Very few in the game have the resources to bid as much as the Sheikh or Coolmore do on the exceptional looking/bred yearlings at sales such as this.
Instead of spending 11 million on a Kingmambo, you can buy nice mares and breed to them.
I think that the bloodstock game is shifting, and that mares are going to become more coveted than stallions, if they aren't already.
I also find it hysterical that a pinhooker spends one million on a horse with the intent to flip it at a 2Yo in training sale. Who would ever have imagined that? That a pure pinhooker would spend a million on a horse?
The only way that anyone is going to have the slightest chance to succeed against the excessive spending by the two largest players is going to be to breed their own.

[Sightseek]

I loved Smarty Jones, but he wasn't the most impressive looking horse to grace the cover of Blood-Horse. Someone said they would have picked his sister up at least for a broodmare prospect, but her progeny may or may not be all that 'commercial' in appearance. That said, if I was playing with the sort of money that most of these folks have, I'd probably bid in the hopes that lightning struck twice on the track. It's all a game of chance and luck.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I think its becoming obvious that the only way to now attempt to become successful in this game is to start your own breeding operation.
Very few in the game have the resources to bid as much as the Sheikh or Coolmore do on the exceptional looking/bred yearlings at sales such as this.
Instead of spending 11 million on a Kingmambo, you can buy nice mares and breed to them.
I think that the bloodstock game is shifting, and that mares are going to become more coveted than stallions, if they aren't already.
I also find it hysterical that a pinhooker spends one million on a horse with the intent to flip it at a 2Yo in training sale. Who would ever have imagined that? That a pure pinhooker would spend a million on a horse?
The only way that anyone is going to have the slightest chance to succeed against the excessive spending by the two largest players is going to be to breed their own.

Correct, homebreds really are the way to go with the occasional buy at auction or a horse who is currently racing at the track and will be a good introduction of new lines to your current program. If you noticed Shadwell bought LOTS of fillies, I have a feeling that not only are they going to step up their game in America, but they are going to breed them themselves. (Jazil will be your leading sire in no time! ) It will be interesting to see if 5 o 6 years from now if the sheiks stop buying so much at auction because of this.

There is possible talk that Hoby may be keeping that horse even though he said it was a pinhook. I don't know, but I agree a million purchase to pinhook is crazy, The Green Monkey only happened once...

[Pedigree Ann]

Racing Post headline over a photo of Dettori being led out, with a grim look on his face-

Cheer up Frankie - the boss has spent $11.7m on a new recruit!

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I loved Smarty Jones, but he wasn't the most impressive looking horse to grace the cover of Blood-Horse. Someone said they would have picked his sister up at least for a broodmare prospect, but her progeny may or may not be all that 'commercial' in appearance. That said, if I was playing with the sort of money that most of these folks have, I'd probably bid in the hopes that lightning struck twice on the track. It's all a game of chance and luck.

Smary Jones is as crooked as they come. It's no surprise to me that his full sister would probably be the same way. Lightning could strike twice though and if they could keep her sound, who knows?

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Someone said they would have picked his sister up at least for a broodmare prospect, but her progeny may or may not be all that 'commercial' in appearance. .

Gonna have a darn nice catalogue page, though. Black-type every generation and solid winners aside from the stakes horses.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Gonna have a darn nice catalogue page, though. Black-type every generation and solid winners aside from the stakes horses.

Look over the pedigree pages of the RNA's in the past two days...there are so many black-type pages offered that one can afford to pass on the lesser conformed individuals even if they have great pedigrees. Athleticism w/ pedigree is what is going to get the big money. Not to mention, save Smarty, if his sister's progeny go through the ring and she doesn't pan out as a racehorse, there is very little black type left in the first & second dams so the page is really going to pale in comparison with a lot of other horses going through the ring.

http://www.keeneland.com/sales/sep06/pdfs/233.pdf

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Balletto

The Flitabout clan is notorious for unsoundness... but if you took the ill-fated Ruffian out of it, do you think it would be talked about even half as much? Just curious... im not sure it would.

You mean Ruffian via her sire Reviewer, who wasn't the soundest horse (only managed 13 starts in 3 campaigns, in a era when that was one year's work for many), right? Reviewer's champion sister Queen of the Stage had a similar record. But some other foals of their dam Broadway seem to be sounder (Great White Way, Will Hays) and Flitabout's own foals look to have been fairly sturdy. I'd be inclined to fault Reviewer's sire Bold Ruler more than Flitabout, since he had his share of soft horses out of stoutish mares (compare Boldnesian with half-sister Princessnesian).

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Not At Keeneland for the yearling sale if you buy one and he has got a chip he yours. that is why every yearling has to have a set of X rays in the repository.

Now if you buy a yearling and re xray it and find a chip and that same chip is not on the consignors xrays in the repository then you can return it.

Yeah, thats what I meat...that is fairly the process....I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to incrue a big expense up front to have an understanding of what you are getting and I think many people don't know that.....the repository protects the owners, however, many of those x-rays were taken a couple of months prior to the sales ad before the horses were shiped to the sales grounds - so it is always good practice to x-ray your horses arterwards...

Originally Posted by oracle80

I think its becoming obvious that the only way to now attempt to become successful in this game is to start your own breeding operation.
Very few in the game have the resources to bid as much as the Sheikh or Coolmore do on the exceptional looking/bred yearlings at sales such as this.
Instead of spending 11 million on a Kingmambo, you can buy nice mares and breed to them.
I think that the bloodstock game is shifting, and that mares are going to become more coveted than stallions, if they aren't already.
I also find it hysterical that a pinhooker spends one million on a horse with the intent to flip it at a 2Yo in training sale. Who would ever have imagined that? That a pure pinhooker would spend a million on a horse?
The only way that anyone is going to have the slightest chance to succeed against the excessive spending by the two largest players is going to be to breed their own.

The really scary thing is that they own many of the blueblood mares too from buying the best at the KEE November sale the last 15 years.....they themselves are breeding there own nicehomebreds like Balletto and Bernardini, etc....scary to think they only paid stud fee ($300,000) for Bernardini

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I think its becoming obvious that the only way to now attempt to become successful in this game is to start your own breeding operation.
Very few in the game have the resources to bid as much as the Sheikh or Coolmore do on the exceptional looking/bred yearlings at sales such as this.
Instead of spending 11 million on a Kingmambo, you can buy nice mares and breed to them.
I think that the bloodstock game is shifting, and that mares are going to become more coveted than stallions, if they aren't already.
I also find it hysterical that a pinhooker spends one million on a horse with the intent to flip it at a 2Yo in training sale. Who would ever have imagined that? That a pure pinhooker would spend a million on a horse?
The only way that anyone is going to have the slightest chance to succeed against the excessive spending by the two largest players is going to be to breed their own.

It may happen. And the occasional purchase at an auction of a reasonably priced horse. Some mares should not be bred due to lack of overall pedigree, but some mares have every right to be bred.

mares already are more coveted, it explains how wild fit (for example) can go for what she went for last winter without much pedigree.
also explains why some are claiming mares with poor race records, but black type in their pedigree, cleaning them up and re-selling as broodmare prospects--the new pinhookers.

[sumitas]

you are right Danny, pedigrees have never been more important for finding real solid value. the entire pedigree, not just the first couple of gens which are the big sellers at the auctions. and you're right, the racing mares need prolly 6 months of detoxification from the track before they should be mated.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Yeah, thats what I meat...that is fairly the process....I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to incrue a big expense up front to have an understanding of what you are getting and I think many people don't know that.....the repository protects the owners, however, many of those x-rays were taken a couple of months prior to the sales ad before the horses were shiped to the sales grounds - so it is always good practice to x-ray your horses arterwards...

The vets even charge you when they read the x-rays for you. Even though they weren't the ones who took the x-rays in the repository, they still charge you when they look at them. If my memory is correct, I think our vet bill from the Keeneland sale last year was around $9,000.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Yeah, thats what I meat...that is fairly the process....I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to incrue a big expense up front to have an understanding of what you are getting and I think many people don't know that.....the repository protects the owners, however, many of those x-rays were taken a couple of months prior to the sales ad before the horses were shiped to the sales grounds - so it is always good practice to x-ray your horses arterwards...

I don't know about other farms but the one I worked on always did x-rays within two weeks of whenever that yearling would sell...It made the films recent but also left enough time to redo any that they didn't like etc.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Danzig2

mares already are more coveted, it explains how wild fit (for example) can go for what she went for last winter without much pedigree.
also explains why some are claiming mares with poor race records, but black type in their pedigree, cleaning them up and re-selling as broodmare prospects--the new pinhookers.

Grannies Feather (unraced), the dam of Wild Fit, was bought for $500 at a sheriff's auction in Tsx. She has produced Wild Fit and Fusaichi Rock Star. She does have 4 reines de course pre 1941 so her family has some foundation.