Cap and Trade vote on Friday

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2...6-31282991_ITM



i can't help but wonder, after living thru warnings of impending doom from a soon to occur ice age, and now dealing with catastrophic warming, if these aren't just futile exercises of man attempting to control things that are really beyond his control?

.....or attempting to control others!

It's the sun, stupid.

Or not.

Jobs > environment

Get some god damned jobs for the people to pay for this global warming tax and stop punishing the people who have jobs by having them carry the burden of increased taxes so slapdicks who don't have jobs can have a/c.

Obama is a failure.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

It's the sun, stupid.

Or not.

Jobs > environment

Get some god damned jobs for the people to pay for this global warming tax and stop punishing the people who have jobs by having them carry the burden of increased taxes so slapdicks who don't have jobs can have a/c.

Obama is a failure.

interesting that more countries are recognizing that right now we have bigger obstacles in front of us then warming-which may be why so many are re-thinking their priorities. but not obama and the House...

Originally Posted by Danzig

interesting that more countries are recognizing that right now we have bigger obstacles in front of us then warming-which may be why so many are re-thinking their priorities. but not obama and the House...

Personally, I think this issue has been tied to getting the US off of Petroleum and Coal. Imo opinion if we could get away from these two sources of energy, or at least limit our dependency with alternatives, it would solve some huge problems:

1. The middle east, Iran, Ven., and Russia dont hold US and therefore many of our allies hostage in negotiations that effect the economy later on.

2. We get rid of all sorts of pollution problems. (not even considering CO2 and any warming occuring)

Problem is it is so easy an inexpensive to keep on using Coal and Petroleum (for the moment). Coal will be easy for a long time. In some people's view it in the best interest of our country to bite the bullet now. Government has clearly has been a catalyst for innovation in the past (Conservatives and Republicans can now shudder in horror). I think Obama's group thinks we need to start, and the timing is actually good for various economic reasons
and politcal reasons.

I think this country has little will to see things through. Pain must be felt first. I believe this requires gas nees to go to 4-5 bucks a gallon again. And then further. Russia gets wealthy, Iran wont have social unrest because their economy is rolling, and we start "getting it" again.

Oh heck I can barely read this.
I did not make small newspaper long
sentences.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Personally, I think this issue has been tied to getting the US off of Petroleum and Coal. Imo opinion if we could get away from these two sources of energy, or at least limit our dependency with alternatives, it would solve some huge problems:

1. The middle east, Iran, Ven., and Russia dont hold US and therefore many of our allies hostage in negotiations that effect the economy later on.

2. We get rid of all sorts of pollution problems. (not even considering CO2 and any warming occuring)

Problem is it is so easy an inexpensive to keep on using Coal and Petroleum (for the moment). Coal will be easy for a long time. In some people's view it in the best interest of our country to bite the bullet now. Government has clearly has been a catalyst for innovation in the past (Conservatives and Republicans can now shudder in horror). I think Obama's group thinks we need to start, and the timing is actually good for various economic reasons
and politcal reasons.

I think this country has little will to see things through. Pain must be felt first. I believe this requires gas nees to go to 4-5 bucks a gallon again. And then further. Russia gets wealthy, Iran wont have social unrest because their economy is rolling, and we start "getting it" again.

Oh heck I can barely read this.
I did not make small newspaper long
sentences.

i absolutely disagree. we're already experiencing pain, with the govt thinking putting us deeper in the debt that got us where we are as some freakish sort of cure. the last thing we need right now is for energy prices to go thru the roof, which will only make our economic problems even larger than they are now. i don't think we lack will-we do however seem to have folks in high places who think we're our own worst enemy, and that we are all the cause of everything wrong is this world-i disagree with that as well. i certainly don't see how 4-5 dollar gas solves anything. gas is and will continue to be a relatively cheap energy source. we've already done a lot to reduce pollution-it would be nice if others, such as china, would follow suit, rather than thinking we can just get cleaner and cleaner, while they do not.

Originally Posted by Danzig

1. i absolutely disagree. we're already experiencing pain, with the govt thinking putting us deeper in the debt that got us where we are as some freakish sort of cure the last thing we need right now is for energy prices to go thru the roof, which will only make our economic problems even larger than they are now.. i don't think we lack will-we do however seem to have folks in high places who think we're our own worst enemy, and that we are all the cause of everything wrong is this world-i disagree with that as well. 2.i certainly don't see how 4-5 dollar gas solves anything. gas is and will continue to be a relatively cheap energy source. we've already done a lot to reduce pollution-it would be nice if others, such as china, would follow suit, rather than thinking we can just get cleaner and cleaner, while they do not.

1. I understand this concern. I do not necessarily disagree. But Obama has economists that do. I just dont know enough. I am stating what I think our current administrations thinking is.

2. This is somewhere around the price that makes alternatives to gasoline cheaper. There is no doubt that passenger vehicles can run effectively off the new technology. Big transport will most likely always require some type of petroleum or hydrocarbon. Electricity will not provide enough power for all transport.

Coal:
Texas is by far the biggest wind producer in the country. It is more expensive right now, but it might let people in San Antonio continue to exercise outside. People just dont get the health concerns with bad air. Look at China. They dont live as long and their people are not as healthy now due to air. They become an economic power house and they also become unhealthy. We need nuclear power, sun and wind where applicable imo. More electric cars or mass transit would also help with the air problem of course.

Bad air is a personal issue for me. Europe has solved this problem a number of times over. We can also.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

1. I understand this concern. I do not necessarily disagree. But Obama has economists that do. I just dont know enough. I am stating what I think our current administrations thinking is.

2. This is somewhere around the price that makes alternatives to gasoline cheaper. There is no doubt that passenger vehicles can run effectively off the new technology. Big transport will most likely always require some type of petroleum or hydrocarbon. Electricity will not provide enough power for all transport.

Coal:
Texas is by far the biggest wind producer in the country. It is more expensive right now, but it might let people in San Antonio continue to exercise outside. People just dont get the health concerns with bad air. Look at China. They dont live as long and their people are not as healthy now due to air. They become an economic power house and they also become unhealthy. We need nuclear power, sun and wind where applicable imo. More electric cars or mass transit would also help with the air problem of course.

Bad air is a personal issue for me. Europe has solved this problem a number of times over. We can also.

I think that air quality is but one issue facing the long term health of the Chinese people.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I think Obama's group thinks we need to start, and the timing is actually good for various economic reasons
and politcal reasons.

I think this country has little will to see things through. Pain must be felt first. I believe this requires gas nees to go to 4-5 bucks a gallon again. And then further. Russia gets wealthy, Iran wont have social unrest because their economy is rolling, and we start "getting it" again.

Oh heck I can barely read this.
I did not make small newspaper long
sentences.

What exactly is good ecomonically about this again?

And it will be good to have Vladimir Putin and a bunch of crazed militant Ayatollahs have untold wealth? Please NEVER teach social studies EVER!!!

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What exactly is good ecomonically about this again?

And it will be good to have Vladimir Putin and a bunch of crazed militant Ayatollahs have untold wealth? Please NEVER teach social studies EVER!!!

Would you please read my quote again.

The second part is exactly opposite of what Obama's adm. has posited.
The idea is that oil going to levels that are high will FORCE us to use alternative sources (because they are now competitive) which will cause EXACTLY the opposite of what you posted. A painful oil punch will FORCE a switch.

THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE THE ADMISTRATION BELIEVES.
GET OFF THE OIL.

did i yell?

Do you think our reliance on oil importation is a problem?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Would you please read my quote again.

The second part is exactly opposite of what Obama's adm. has posited.
The idea is that oil going to levels that are high will FORCE us to use alternative sources (because they are now competitive) which will cause EXACTLY the opposite of what you posted. A painful oil punch will FORCE a switch.

THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE THE ADMISTRATION BELIEVES.
GET OFF THE OIL.

did i yell?

Do you think our reliance on oil importation is a problem?

How is wind or solar energy going to power our cars? You are confusing the issues.

Solar and wind energy are not good large scale sources because it costs way too much to produce. The main reason being that there are only a few areas of the country that have a climate conducive to those alternates and it will cost a fortune to get the energy created to the other areas.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Obama is a failure.

Now that I can agree with.