What if Invasor and Bernardini split?

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Gander

I dont agree that Invasor should be ranked above Lava Man. Why exactly? As much as people like to bash the company Lava Man has been keeping, Invasor hasnt exactly defeated world beaters either. Should be a fun bunch of weeks leading up to the BC.

I completely agree with this Gander on all accounts. A lot of people don't give Lava Man the credit he deserves.

With that being said, I will be surprised if Bernardini doesn't win his next two races because he is a freaking monster/superhorse. But, it is horse racing and anything can happen. I would just love it if either Bernardini, Lava Man, or Sun King wins the Classic (I'm huge fans of all three of these horses!)

[boswd]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I completely agree with this Gander on all accounts. A lot of people don't give Lava Man the credit he deserves.

With that being said, I will be surprised if Bernardini doesn't win his next two races because he is a freaking monster/superhorse. But, it is horse racing and anything can happen. I would just love it if either Bernardini, Lava Man, or Sun King wins the Classic (I'm huge fans of all three of these horses!)

No, I don't agree overall with Gander. I think alot of people know what kind of horse Lava Man is. He has his detractors out here in East because he has stayed home. but I don't blame his connections there are three Great Grade I's at a million dollars a race and at a 1 1/4. I think he is the feel good story of the year besides Barbaro, former claimer turned Grade I millionaire. I hope he stays healthy and we have a real battle between the Big Three on BCC. I am though a huge Invasor fan. He has gotten less hype ,since the Bernardini hype machine has started, as well. That's not to say Bernardini doen't deserve it!!!!!

[Gander]

Invasor has gotten plenty of press here in NY. Its as if he has beaten some monsters when really who has he beaten...Sun King, a very poor representation of Flower Alley, Wanderin Boy, Wild Dessert, Andromedas Hero.
I dont consider any of these horses all that much better than the horses Lava Man has beaten.

Nice horse? Sure. Perhaps better than I think (wouldnt be the first or second time I was wrong about a horse), but to rank him higher than Lava Man at this juncture of the year based on beating those horses...I cant agree with.

If he beats Bernardini or Lava Man I will admit I am an idiot. I just dont think he will.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Gander

Invasor has gotten plenty of press here in NY. Its as if he has beaten some monsters when really who has he beaten...Sun King, a very poor representation of Flower Alley, Wanderin Boy, Wild Dessert, Andromedas Hero.
I dont consider any of these horses all that much better than the horses Lava Man has beaten.

Nice horse? Sure. Perhaps better than I think (wouldnt be the first or second time I was wrong about a horse), but to rank him higher than Lava Man at this juncture of the year based on beating those horses...I cant agree with.

If he beats Bernardini or Lava Man I will admit I am an idiot. I just dont think he will.

Again, I agree. We'll know more about Invasor in the JCGC. I know that Lava Man is the goods; he just may not be a good shipper. I think that he will get beaten in the Classic based on that fact. If Invasor and Lava Man faced each other out west and Invasor was a good shipper (which I think that he is?), I am very confident that Lava Man would win. That is not to take anything away from Invasor because he is an extremely nice animal and I think that he beat a dramatically improved Sun King in the Woodward.

[Gander]

Exacltly how many races has Lava Man done so horribly in shipping? 2?
The Jockey Club in which there was one horse (Borrego) who did any real running. So that was a throwout for many horses including Flower Alley.
The other race was the Japan race. How many successful horses ship from the US to Japan? Not many.

So if you are going by just those 2 races, which I think is a bad idea, then yes Lava Man is a horrible shipper. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and quite frankly the only horse he has to beat in my opinion is Bernardini.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Gander

Exacltly how many races has Lava Man done so horribly in shipping? 2?
The Jockey Club in which there was one horse (Borrego) who did any real running. So that was a throwout for many horses including Flower Alley.
The other race was the Japan race. How many successful horses ship from the US to Japan? Not many.

So if you are going by just those 2 races, which I think is a bad idea, then yes Lava Man is a horrible shipper. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and quite frankly the only horse he has to beat in my opinion is Bernardini.

Well, those are the only two races in which has shipped out of Cali (that I know of unless he shipped when he was a claimer), and so based on those two performances, I have to acknowledge the fact that he may not be a good shipper. I just don't have anything else to go by. In fact, he may be a good shipper and it is just a coincidence that he didn't perform well in the two races in which he shipped. I know that most, if not all, horses don't ship successfully from the US to Japan. Also, he could have had a legitimate excuse as to why he didn't perform well in the JCGC last year. Quite frankly, I think that the horse was tired from three monstrous back to back performances. I know that he wasn't himself in that race. Do you know if they found any physical ailments with him after that race?

If Lava Man does win the BC Classic, it would be one of the greatest stories ever in the history of the sport. I would be fanatic if he won because I love the horse! But if he doesn't perform well at all in the BCC, then it is most likely because he isn't a good shipper. Of course, we'll probably have some on this message board saying that he just isn't good enough.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Well, those are the only two races in which has shipped out of Cali (that I know of unless he shipped when he was a claimer), and so based on those two performances, I have to acknowledge the fact that he may not be a good shipper. I just don't have anything else to go by. In fact, he may be a good shipper and it is just a coincidence that he didn't perform well in the two races in which he shipped. I know that most, if not all, horses don't ship successfully from the US to Japan. Also, he could have had a legitimate excuse as to why he didn't perform well in the JCGC last year. Quite frankly, I think that the horse was tired from three monstrous back to back performances. I know that he wasn't himself in that race. Do you know if they found any physical ailments with him after that race?

If Lava Man does win the BC Classic, it would be one of the greatest stories ever in the history of the sport. I would be fanatic if he won because I love the horse! But if he doesn't perform well at all in the BCC, then it is most likely because he isn't a good shipper. Of course, we'll probably have some on this message board saying that he just isn't good enough.

lava man shipped to japan after staggering down the lane in jcgc, apparently not in great shape, didn't ship well in, and then they tried to throw him out of the pan and into the fire in japan. it's why he'll ship into churchill with plenty of time to get acclimated.

the old schoolers always said either ship and race IMMEDIATELY, or ship in three weeks ahead of the race. ship in a few days ahead of time, a bad shipper will have just enough time to develop problems and skunk up the place in the race. so go three weeks out, time to get thru all those nagging things brought on by travel.

besides, he at least came back from japan better than ever, hasn't missed a beat since--how many dubai and back shippers can say the same??

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Gander

Exacltly how many races has Lava Man done so horribly in shipping? 2?
The Jockey Club in which there was one horse (Borrego) who did any real running. So that was a throwout for many horses including Flower Alley.
The other race was the Japan race. How many successful horses ship from the US to Japan? Not many.

So if you are going by just those 2 races, which I think is a bad idea, then yes Lava Man is a horrible shipper. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and quite frankly the only horse he has to beat in my opinion is Bernardini.

And let's not forget Lava Man shed his frog in the Japan race and they said he left a bloody trail coming off the track, that is a painful occurence for a horse, they don't all do it, but when they do it's a yucky mess.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by Gander

Invasor has gotten plenty of press here in NY. Its as if he has beaten some monsters when really who has he beaten...Sun King, a very poor representation of Flower Alley, Wanderin Boy, Wild Dessert, Andromedas Hero.
I dont consider any of these horses all that much better than the horses Lava Man has beaten.

Nice horse? Sure. Perhaps better than I think (wouldnt be the first or second time I was wrong about a horse), but to rank him higher than Lava Man at this juncture of the year based on beating those horses...I cant agree with.

If he beats Bernardini or Lava Man I will admit I am an idiot. I just dont think he will.

Oh he did get alot of Press especially after the Whitney, but after that it has been all Bernardini.
I guess you can say the same about Lava Man, hasn't beaten any world beaters himself. I do agree Lava Man should be number one but fair is fair it's not exactly that tough out on West either.

[SniperSB23]

Lava Man also tanked when he ran the Sunshine Millions at Gulfstream. So it has been three times out of California with those three races being the three biggest defeats of his life in beaten margins.