Gettng Tough with North Korea

How do we scare them?
Be specific, what do you do?

They are militarily strong.
They could take out South Korea
in a heartbeat and possibly tear Japan up.
They are a dying dog anyway with nothing to lose,
how do you scare them?

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by pgardn

How do we scare them?
Be specific, what do you do?

They are militarily strong.
They could take out South Korea
in a heartbeat and possibly tear Japan up.
They are a dying dog anyway with nothing to lose,
how do you scare them?

Kim has a heart attack? The suspected ship sinks at the same time and least of all when that missle goes off on the 4rth it gets blown out of the sky before it gets near to Japan. That's a few things. But I'd also send the Pres to the shores where the missle would hit to show we're safe and offer Al Gore for his two employees.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by pgardn

How do we scare them?
Be specific, what do you do?

They are militarily strong.
They could take out South Korea
in a heartbeat and possibly tear Japan up.
They are a dying dog anyway with nothing to lose,
how do you scare them?

I'm sure there are a few things we can do. One possibility is parking a couple of nuclear subs off of North Korea, assuring them that should they be stupid enough to launch anything hostile, they will not live to see it hit the ground. Not only will they die, they won't even know if their attack worked at all.

Sometimes you just have to bloody the bully's nose to stop the B.S. And in the long term, you arm Japan nuclearly and South Korea with ABM's to bring balance to the region, unlike now with South Korea being covered only by our umbrella, and with China being the only big guy in the neighborhood.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I'm sure there are a few things we can do. One possibility is parking a couple of nuclear subs off of North Korea, assuring them that should they be stupid enough to launch anything hostile, they will not live to see it hit the ground. Not only will they die, they won't even know if their attack worked at all.

Sometimes you just have to bloody the bully's nose to stop the B.S. And in the long term, you arm Japan nuclearly and South Korea with ABM's to bring balance to the region, unlike now with South Korea being covered only by our umbrella, and with China being the only big guy in the neighborhood.

japan can go nuclear anytime they want. they don't need us for that. but it's culturally difficult for them. and no one in the far east wants to see japan declare itself an offensive military power. that's a non-starter.

plus, how does a nuclear armed japan threaten n. korea more that a nuclear armed america? i just don't get that.

and abm's are a joke. we have trouble shooting down single test targets on planned trajectories. what do you think happens when it's multiple live target's mixed with dummy warheads? which one do you choose for the 33% chance that you actually hit it?

you can talk about bloodying the bully's nose because you don't live in seoul. n. korea doesn't need a nuke to turn it to dust. it's 30 miles from one of the largest concentrations of conventional artillery in the world.

there are no good choices.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

japan can go nuclear anytime they want. they don't need us for that. but it's culturally difficult for them. and no one in the far east wants to see japan declare itself an offensive military power. that's a non-starter.

plus, how does a nuclear armed japan threaten n. korea more that a nuclear armed america? i just don't get that.

and abm's are a joke. we have trouble shooting down single test targets on planned trajectories. what do you think happens when it's multiple live target's mixed with dummy warheads? which one do you choose for the 33% chance that you actually hit it?

you can talk about bloodying the bully's nose because you don't live in seoul. n. korea doesn't need a nuke to turn it to dust. it's 30 miles from one of the largest concentrations of conventional artillery in the world.

there are no good choices.

So there being no good choices, in your opinion, translates to doing nothing? Letting them continue to unnerve nations in the region and around the world?

When you say "no one in the far east wants Japan to become an offensive military power", I guess that includes North Korea? Would you automatically consider a nuclear Japan to be offensive, when the weapons are only for deterrence and counterattack? The very cultural difficulties you reference would ensure their acting only defensively -- they are not tje Japan of Imperial times up until World War II.

A nuclear Japan is more of a threat than America because the response time is that much faster. It's the same reason that Russian missiles based in Cuba are more of a threat to the U.S. than Russian ICBM's based in Siberia. They are both Russian missiles with the same capabilities and effects, but with shorter flight times the probability of an effective first strike goes up, as does the fear they stir. Plus, with a country like North Korea where they can't launch ICBM's of their own, they are in the position of being targeted by a sniper but having only a .22 to shoot back with. They'll behave.

I only mentioned ABM's because there is a conventional force there already (29000 U.S. GI's -- which I'd like to bring home) and while no one would seriously protest South Korea's right for defensive weapons, putting missiles actually on South Korean soil would be construed as an escalation.

[dellinger63]

whether we want to or not some type of action needs to take place. Please!!!

North Korea threatened Wednesday to wipe the United States off the map as Washington and its allies watched for signs the regime will launch a series of missiles in the coming days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090624/...eas_nuclear_91

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

whether we want to or not some type of action needs to take place. Please!!!

North Korea threatened Wednesday to wipe the United States off the map as Washington and its allies watched for signs the regime will launch a series of missiles in the coming days

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090624/...eas_nuclear_91

here is the test uncle joe talked about , if he fails , he is gone , and i just hope we are still here dell , saratoga is only a month away , we want to see paradise at least once more

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by gales0678

here is the test uncle joe talked about , if he fails , he is gone , and i just hope we are still here dell , saratoga is only a month away , we want to see paradise at least once more

yea this is far more serious than bailing out GM or ordering up Gov healthcare and I want to see Toga at least a dozen more times. Only complaint I'll have is if no action is taken (words and resolutions don't count). I'm behind Obama on this one provided he does SOMETHING....

Originally Posted by gales0678

here is the test uncle joe talked about , if he fails , he is gone , and i just hope we are still here dell , saratoga is only a month away , we want to see paradise at least once more

They will wipe us off the map with... a scud missile?

They cannot retaliate against us in any serious manner.
South Korea and Japan have to be jittery as always.

We should all be more worried if they started to mass troops along
the border with S. Korea. Or try to deliver a nuclear device
via some cheap missile and it goes dirty. They have shown
no capability of delivering a long range nuclear device, they
have problems setting them off properly under controlled conditions.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I'm sure there are a few things we can do. One possibility is parking a couple of nuclear subs off of North Korea, assuring them that should they be stupid enough to launch anything hostile, they will not live to see it hit the ground. Not only will they die, they won't even know if their attack worked at all.

Sometimes you just have to bloody the bully's nose to stop the B.S. And in the long term, you arm Japan nuclearly and South Korea with ABM's to bring balance to the region, unlike now with South Korea being covered only by our umbrella, and with China being the only big guy in the neighborhood.

one more thing.

you don't park boomers. the whole idea is keeping them moving so no one knows where they are. they're there so should an attack succeed in taking out land and air based nukes, there's still a guarantee of mutual annihilation.

here's a piece of good news. should india and pakistan ever unleash their nuclear arsenals against each other they have enough between them to end human civilization. even if nothing lands outside pakistan and india.

and india already has icbm's. they can drop their nukes anywhere they want. pakistan won't be far behind.

Originally Posted by joeydb

I'm sure there are a few things we can do. One possibility is parking a couple of nuclear subs off of North Korea, assuring them that should they be stupid enough to launch anything hostile, they will not live to see it hit the ground. Not only will they die, they won't even know if their attack worked at all.

Sometimes you just have to bloody the bully's nose to stop the B.S. And in the long term, you arm Japan nuclearly and South Korea with ABM's to bring balance to the region, unlike now with South Korea being covered only by our umbrella, and with China being the only big guy in the neighborhood.

A rabid dog does not need a bloody nose,
its already in dire straits. It does not care if you
point a gun at it... heck, it might like it.