Mockery of Sport?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

As far as the speed figures, I gotta think Beyer & his followers would have been a lot more content had Summer Bird been the bomb that won.

why? beyer's been around this sport longer than a lot of folks have been alive. he knows the occasional bomb comes in, and he knows that sometimes horses run an inexplicable figure that doesn't jibe with anything they've done before-or what they do after.

it's not the end of the world that another 50-1'er won this thing.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Mockery? It's horse racing! Anything can and will happen.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Mockery? It's horse racing! Anything can and will happen.

exactly. i doubt giacomo winning a few years back killed the sport or reduced handle.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Danzig

exactly. i doubt giacomo winning a few years back killed the sport or reduced handle.

While I didn't bet Giacomo, one can make a strong case he should've never been 50-1 and realistically was more of a 20-1 shot. Mine that Bird had the look of a 200-1 shot. HUge differemce.

[MISTERGEE]

Originally Posted by Danzig

exactly. i doubt giacomo winning a few years back killed the sport or reduced handle.

have you compared giacomos record and connections coming into the derby to this horse?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

have you compared giacomos record and connections coming into the derby to this horse?

nope. but until yesterday, giacomo was the second highest payout in derby history. now, he's third. in that regard, they are very similar. giacomo winning didn't prove detrimental, and mine that bird won't either.

[MISTERGEE]

Originally Posted by Danzig

nope. but until yesterday, giacomo was the second highest payout in derby history. now, he's third. in that regard, they are very similar. giacomo winning didn't prove detrimental, and mine that bird won't either.

they may have paid similarly but i do not believe the situations are similar

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

they may have paid similarly but i do not believe the situations are similar

they're very similar. a horse no one gave a shot in hell to win, did just that. don't you remember the immediate aftermath of that race giacomo won? lol people were pretty horrified. it was hilarious.

if anything, things like yesterday are a good thing. it showed once again that you can be lucky rather than good, and you don't have to be an oil-rich sheik or be able to afford pletchers day rate to win a big race. this is the only sport that you don't have to have mark cubans bankroll in order to be a participant.

[ninetoone]

His life's work is based on these numbers. He talked about the last out Beyer as a strong predictor of performance in the Derby the day before the race. Don't you think he would have been happier with a Summer Bird victory? I'm not bashing him, but let's get real.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

His life's work is based on these numbers. He talked about the last out Beyer as a strong predictor of performance in the Derby the day before the race. Don't you think he would have been happier with a Summer Bird victory? I'm not bashing him, but let's get real.

seeing as how he picked IWR, i'd think he would be happier had the horse not scratched.

most folks went with previous mud experience and bet the farm on FF. that wasn't based on beyers.
if beyers don't correlate from one surface to another, then i'd imagine they aren't gospel when going from a fast track to a sloppy one.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by Danzig

seeing as how he picked IWR, i'd think he would be happier had the horse not scratched.

most folks went with previous mud experience and bet the farm on FF. that wasn't based on beyers.
if beyers don't correlate from one surface to another, then i'd imagine they aren't gospel when going from a fast track to a sloppy one.

OK, if you say so.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

OK, if you say so.

didn't they? everyone was laying on FF, saying how he had won in the slop at fairgrounds...they completely discounted the layoff, the lack of a longer race, and went just by the surface with him.

i doubt beyer gets hysterical and throws out all his stuff and retires. bombs come in, it happens. it happened yesterday, big deal.

[ninetoone]

Most people that bet yesterday didn't have a clue enough to read the form & even figure out that FF had won in the slop before.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ninetoone

Most people that bet yesterday didn't have a clue enough to read the form & even figure out that FF had won in the slop before.

perhaps. but many of them also may have bet him because larry jones was 'due'.
but i know a lot of the folks on here kept bringing up friesan fire. i also know that everyone who knows me was asking about my pick for the race. so, i would assume that many who went to the track also asked regular race fans they know about picks-i'd imagine the word got out on the jones colt.

[Danzig]

besides that, most years he would be right-beyers do point out the winner. don't people usually criticize beyer for not picking the horse with the highest beyer going in to be the winner, and more often then not, that horse wins the race? not the horse he ends up choosing?