Just for a change of pace

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Not all the detainees were captured in war zones.

If you were walking down the street in your neighborhood and a van pulled up with masked men and they put a veil over your head and took you to another country...

would you call that kidnapping?

I'm sure there were tons of cases of isolated innocents being kidnapped by the secret army guys in white vans. And we are crazy?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm sure there were tons of cases of isolated innocents being kidnapped by the secret army guys in white vans. And we are crazy?

based on the stories that are coming forward from the few that have gotten out, my scenario is pretty accurate.

But then again, how would we know? Just like you said earlier to brian, we really wouldnt know. Thats the problem.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

based on the stories that are coming forward from the few that have gotten out, my scenario is pretty accurate.

But then again, how would we know? Just like you said earlier to brian, we really wouldnt know. Thats the problem.

Exactly. The fact that they had talked about their story alone puts us way down the chain of fear of Intellegence services. Think anyone talks after the Moussad or KGB releases them? Or I should say survives afterwards?

I know that bad things occur in the world. Condoning or approving them doesnt change the fact that they happen and in many cases need to happen. Think the three pirates killed would have surrendered willingly if they thought they would have been treated "fairly"? So killing them to save a life is less of a n issue than sleep deprivation of a terror suspect that may be withholding info on a imminent plot? Who gets to choose?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Exactly. The fact that they had talked about their story alone puts us way down the chain of fear of Intellegence services. Think anyone talks after the Moussad or KGB releases them? Or I should say survives afterwards?

I know that bad things occur in the world. Condoning or approving them doesnt change the fact that they happen and in many cases need to happen. Think the three pirates killed would have surrendered willingly if they thought they would have been treated "fairly"? So killing them to save a life is less of a n issue than sleep deprivation of a terror suspect that may be withholding info on a imminent plot? Who gets to choose?

Using the KGB or Moussad as examples to support the righteousness of our intelligence efforts is akin to me bringing up Imelda Marcos to prove that i don't own too many pairs of shoes.

Depriving people of liberty to protect liberty never made much sense to me.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Using the KGB or Moussad as examples to support the righteousness of our intelligence efforts is akin to me bringing up Imelda Marcos to prove that i don't own too many pairs of shoes.

Depriving people of liberty to protect liberty never made much sense to me.

No it is pointing out the hypocrisy of those who wish our services to operate in the publics view and avoid condemnation from foreign countries when similar agencies of other countries do neither. Holding ourselves to a "higher" standard will also make the CIA a less effective organization.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No it is pointing out the hypocrisy of those who wish our services to operate in the publics view and avoid condemnation from foreign countries when similar agencies of other countries do neither. Holding ourselves to a "higher" standard will also make the CIA a less effective organization.

If our military were less concerned about civillian casualties, it would be much more effective. That fact that we hold ourselves to a higher standard is expected in that regard...No? Why should intelligence be any difference especially with the money and technology our agency (s) have at their disposal.

It isnt condemnation from other countries that i worry about but rather the hypocrisy within our own actions. We use our military and our agencies to spread and protect freedom while at the same time taking it away without just cause. That doesnt make sense.

[Riot]

I'm sure all the prisoners that were executed (or simply disappeared) would testify that their interrogation techniques were a little more drastic than sleep deprivation. But hey Siberia is a convenient place to send prisoners.

Sleep deprivation impressed me as a big deal technique when described by the two authors I mentioned (because it impressed them as such).

When you post, the general assumption is that you are participating in the thread and from your answers it seems fairly clear what you are thinking.

"Your answers"? Plural? I made one post. Seven words. I commented on the types of procedures on the US list: "I'll bet someone read The Gulag Archipelago".

You apparently are hearing other answers from me in your imagination.

But as I said, your assumptions about what I am thinking, on subjects I haven't addressed, saves me the trouble of actually having to participate in this thread.

BTW - what am I thinking now?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

If our military were less concerned about civillian casualties, it would be much more effective. That fact that we hold ourselves to a higher standard is expected in that regard...No? Why should intelligence be any difference especially with the money and technology our agency (s) have at their disposal.

It isnt condemnation from other countries that i worry about but rather the hypocrisy within our own actions. We use our military and our agencies to spread and protect freedom while at the same time taking it away without just cause. That doesnt make sense.

Greater good. No policy can make everyone happy or cover every circumstance. Innocent people are in jail right now. Doesn't mean we should scrap the legal system.