Belmont the Fall Championship Meet

Wrong as usual my boy. That nickname is left over from the days before the Breeders Cup, when you were still wearing diapers and watching the Smurfs on tv.
In the old days the grade ones run at Belmont were the key decisive races that decided championships. Those days are gone. Champs are decided in most part on the basis of BC day. Doesnt really matter if you win the Champagne or JCGC or Turf Classic if you don't run well on Cup day.
They still call it that because it was called that for years. But the majority of champs will be crowned at CD on BC day. Thats just the way it is in this era of the BC.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Wrong as usual my boy. That nickname is left over from the days before the Breeders Cup, when you were still wearing diapers and watching the Smurfs on tv.
In the old days the grade ones run at Belmont were the key decisive races that decided championships. Those days are gone. Champs are decided in most part on the basis of BC day. Doesnt really matter if you win the Champagne or JCGC or Turf Classic if you don't run well on Cup day.
They still call it that because it was called that for years. But the majority of champs will be crowned at CD on BC day. Thats just the way it is in this era of the BC.

You are so correct and this is one reason why I hate the Breeders Cup. Granted I get to see great racing, but I think there is too much emphasis on racing on that day.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

You are so correct and this is one reason why I hate the Breeders Cup. Granted I get to see great racing, but I think there is too much emphasis on racing on that day.

I completely agree and I think its a real negative. People wonder why we see 4 and 5 horse grade one fields these days and this is why. In the old days championships were truly won based on a years performances. Voters weighed the ENTIRE campaigns of the horses. This is no longer so and its wrong. The whole thing is havily weighed on BC performances as if the other races didn't count. You now actually have guys using 500 grand or 750 grand grade one races as PREPS!! LOL!!! And of course now we never get those great rivalry matchups we used to get. Nor will we ever again. Guys just play keep away all year because its the only smart thing to do. Why rough up your horse in July or August when noone is gonna vote you anything unless you win the Cup. The whole year is just plotted for that one day, and its done racing far more harm than good. We basically traded great races and matchups all year long for one orgy or greatness on one day. Yeah, that day is great, but what about the rest of the year when the grade ones are no longer what they used to be?

[JJP]

I agree with most of what Oracle says although the problem isn't in the Breeders Cup races themselves; its in the perception of those who vote for the Eclipse Awards. While the BC races should be a factor, they should not be the end-all for year end voting, IMO.

Originally Posted by JJP

I agree with most of what Oracle says although the problem isn't in the Breeders Cup races themselves; its in the perception of those who vote for the Eclipse Awards. While the BC races should be a factor, they should not be the end-all for year end voting, IMO.

Amen brother.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Amen brother.

Agreed. Its not the trainers fault that they have to pander to a largely unedcuated crowd.
Each year Watchmaker or Crist does a piece on the eclipse voting and lists some horses that people actually vote for. Its hysterical. You just can't believe what some of these guys do.
If you wanna restore the rest of the year, you 'd need a total overhaul in the way these awards are decided. Many of the voters obviously don't pay attention to the whole year and these are the guys who are deciding hundreds of millions in residual value.
I really can't believe that racing hasn't taken this more seriously and overhauled the voting process and who can vote. They definitely need a system with 1-2-3 voting points like the Baseball awards and College football polls. They also should take Steve Crist or a few others and have them select a committee of voters that are educated, care about the game, and represent a cross section of racing and geography of the country. That way the east Coast bias whiners couldnt gripe each year.
The voting for Eclipses based on BC day is the lazy man's way to decide who to vote for, and its ruined the way the game is played all year. If I was raciing czar for a day, that would be my first move.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Agreed. Its not the trainers fault that they have to pander to a largely unedcuated crowd.
Each year Watchmaker or Crist does a piece on the eclipse voting and lists some horses that people actually vote for. Its hysterical. You just can't believe what some of these guys do.
If you wanna restore the rest of the year, you 'd need a total overhaul in the way these awards are decided. Many of the voters obviously don't pay attention to the whole year and these are the guys who are deciding hundreds of millions in residual value.
I really can't believe that racing hasn't taken this more seriously and overhauled the voting process and who can vote. They definitely need a system with 1-2-3 voting points like the Baseball awards and College football polls. They also should take Steve Crist or a few others and have them select a committee of voters that are educated, care about the game, and represent a cross section of racing and geography of the country. That way the east Coast bias whiners couldnt gripe each year.
The voting for Eclipses based on BC day is the lazy man's way to decide who to vote for, and its ruined the way the game is played all year. If I was raciing czar for a day, that would be my first move.

That would be my 1st move as well. Lets take Silver Train for example, that horse could go undefeated all year and actually beat the horse who won the BC Sprint, but since he didnt race outside of Belmont and didnt race in the Sprint then he wouldnt win the award. I really think a committee needs to be formed to vote on these awards, and I like your point systems. There is too much on the line for the vote to be so casual.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by JJP

I agree with most of what Oracle says although the problem isn't in the Breeders Cup races themselves; its in the perception of those who vote for the Eclipse Awards. While the BC races should be a factor, they should not be the end-all for year end voting, IMO.

I also think it is the timing. Early Fall. I know they keep it that way so they can get as many tracks in the North in the rotation but if it we held in December I think you would see some of the big Grade I'ls get better fields. Although this year it seemed pretty decent. Whitney had 9 Pac classic had 8 Stephen Foster had 9 and I think the Pim Special had 8 or so. Not bad considering the past few years we were looking at 5 and 6 horse fields.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I completely agree and I think its a real negative. People wonder why we see 4 and 5 horse grade one fields these days and this is why. In the old days championships were truly won based on a years performances. Voters weighed the ENTIRE campaigns of the horses. This is no longer so and its wrong. The whole thing is havily weighed on BC performances as if the other races didn't count. You now actually have guys using 500 grand or 750 grand grade one races as PREPS!! LOL!!! And of course now we never get those great rivalry matchups we used to get. Nor will we ever again. Guys just play keep away all year because its the only smart thing to do. Why rough up your horse in July or August when noone is gonna vote you anything unless you win the Cup. The whole year is just plotted for that one day, and its done racing far more harm than good. We basically traded great races and matchups all year long for one orgy or greatness on one day. Yeah, that day is great, but what about the rest of the year when the grade ones are no longer what they used to be?

We basically traded great races and matchups all year long for one orgy or greatness on one day. This is the funniest thing I have ever read. I remember when the Donn was a major race trainers pointed to. Now we dont even get to see the older horses until May/June. And like you said, they use a Grade I race as a prep for the Breeders Cup. It is ridiculous if you ask me. I cant blame the trainers at all, but it doesnt make me happy.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I completely agree and I think its a real negative. People wonder why we see 4 and 5 horse grade one fields these days and this is why. In the old days championships were truly won based on a years performances. Voters weighed the ENTIRE campaigns of the horses. This is no longer so and its wrong. The whole thing is havily weighed on BC performances as if the other races didn't count. You now actually have guys using 500 grand or 750 grand grade one races as PREPS!! LOL!!! And of course now we never get those great rivalry matchups we used to get. Nor will we ever again. Guys just play keep away all year because its the only smart thing to do. Why rough up your horse in July or August when noone is gonna vote you anything unless you win the Cup. The whole year is just plotted for that one day, and its done racing far more harm than good. We basically traded great races and matchups all year long for one orgy or greatness on one day. Yeah, that day is great, but what about the rest of the year when the grade ones are no longer what they used to be?

I could not have said it better myself. I have thought that way for a long time. As much as I love Breeders Cup Day and as much as this sport deserves a "Super BowL" or "All Star Day" It has come at the expense of the great races that built this sport. And it is only going to get worse. More spacing seems to be the way every year. It's sad.

[Gander]

Then I guess the only thing to do is boycott the BC, not bet a single dime on any of the races. Dont tune in, dont go out and watch.

Then maybe they will abolish the BC and go back to the way it was when horse racing was grand.

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Wrong as usual my boy. That nickname is left over from the days before the Breeders Cup, when you were still wearing diapers and watching the Smurfs on tv.
In the old days the grade ones run at Belmont were the key decisive races that decided championships. Those days are gone. Champs are decided in most part on the basis of BC day. Doesnt really matter if you win the Champagne or JCGC or Turf Classic if you don't run well on Cup day.
They still call it that because it was called that for years. But the majority of champs will be crowned at CD on BC day. Thats just the way it is in this era of the BC.

i know its an inside joke stupid, we talked about this like 3-4 years ago