Barbaro (the Champ)

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm a lot like you are. I had very similar feelings about this whole situation, like maybe we were dealt that awful blow in the Preakness, because we were going to be rewarded with bernardini. As captivating as he is on TV, I'm telling you he is even more in person. I truly felt like I was watching something special on Saturday, and I had the goosebumps to prove it.

You saw him in person, Da Hoss? Wow, I hope to have the same priviledge on Gold Cup day. I am in awe of this horse - not just for his talent, but because he is the most gorgeous speciman I've ever seen. In addition, he's simply beautiful to watch - what a stride. Seeing Bernardini in the post parade of the Withers really floored me.......I never expected him to look like that. I've heard that the colt looked fresh as a daisy after the Travers - he could probably run 2 miles. How refreshing in this day and age of speed. Plus, he seems very popular with racetrack goers.

I did post after the Jim Dandy that I thought this colt could be a tonic for racing, and I still do. If nothing else, he's certainly stirred things up on racing message boards!

[Cajungator26]

To me, Bernardini looks like a high strung maniac, but that's just me. (Bluegrass Cat does too.) I appreciate the classic thoroughbred appearance and wide set eyes of Barbaro much more so if we're going to be talking about looks. You really can't even compare the two. Barbaro looks the part of a champion IMO.

[Cajungator26]

If this doesn't appear bugged out high strung to you, then I don't know what.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

If this doesn't appear bugged out high strung to you, then I don't know what.

I don't call that high strung at all, he was walking very calm, he was looking at something. Bluegrass Cat and Ministers Bid are the poster childs for high-strung and buggy eyed. I thought Bernardini showed the calm confidence of the champ he is.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

To me, Bernardini looks like a high strung maniac, but that's just me. (Bluegrass Cat does too.) I appreciate the classic thoroughbred appearance and wide set eyes of Barbaro much more so if we're going to be talking about looks. You really can't even compare the two. Barbaro looks the part of a champion IMO.

In your opinion, Barbaro is a much better looking horse, but that's not fact. If one wanted to, one could certainly compare the two and say that Bernardini is the epitome of thoroughbred elegance. High Strung maniac is something that comes to mind when I think of Minister's Bid, not Bernardini; I haven't looked at your pictures because what's the point? All thoroughbreds are high strung, yes even Barbaro. I'd venture to guess that you are in the minority when it comes to Bernardini not looking the part of a champion.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

I'm the conformation analysis expert on this board, and I say that both horses are awesome physical specimens of the Thoroughbred breed. I really don't think one outweighs the other in that department. Both look to be extremely intelligent animals because both have those large wide set eyes, especially Bernardini. Barbaro reminds me of one of the classy all-time great turf types, and Bernardini reminds me of the classy all-time great dirt types. You have to admit that Bernardini's presence, power, build, and movement remind you of those great horses such as Seattle Slew, Affirmed, and Secretariat for those of you blinded by your obvious bias against and dislike of Bernardini. BOTH HORSES ARE AWESOME.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I'm the conformation analysis expert on this board

you forgot self-proclaimed, I'd take my girl Cajun anytime.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by dr.fager

you forgot self-proclaimed, I'd take my girl Cajun anytime.

I'm not self proclaimed. I am very credible in this department, have many experts who will recommend me, and I have the awards to prove it. I was ranked second in the nation at it when I was 18.

[dr. fager]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I'm not self proclaimed. I am very credible in this department, have many experts who will recommend me, and I have the awards to prove it. I was ranked second in the nation at it when I was 18.

we know as well as literary awards, riding titles, expert on police brutality....

get a sense of humor

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I'm not self proclaimed. I am very credible in this department, have many experts who will recommend me, and I have the awards to prove it. I was ranked second in the nation at it when I was 18.

is there anything more off-putting than a person who is constantly announcing how wonderful he or she is?
--I will bet my house that you have not been up close to either of these horses and that television is not shot for conformation analysis.
What they do with what they have is not the same as truly deconstructing the horse to assess him.
I believe that you do know your game and judging but remember you are only ranked second among those who COMPETE and there are MANY MANY people who are just as good or better than you are who don't.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by dr.fager

you forgot self-proclaimed, I'd take my girl Cajun anytime.

I won a judging seminar in a class of over 30 participants in a contest where we had to place 5 horses in order and give reasons, than the judge had to evaluate our responses, I was the youngest competing with some old world Arabian breeders, I was actually floored when I won, as I have a very disticnt like/dislike criteria, SO THERE!!!!!

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I won a judging seminar in a class of over 30 participants in a contest where we had to place 5 horses in order and give reasons, than the judge had to evaluate our responses, I was the youngest competing with some old world Arabian breeders, I was actually floored when I won, as I have a very disticnt like/dislike criteria, SO THERE!!!!!

I knew that you had some judging experience from somewhere. You know too much about it to just be an exhibitor! That is why I am sure that your horses do better in the show ring than most other also also!

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I'm the conformation analysis expert on this board, and I say that both horses are awesome physical specimens of the Thoroughbred breed. I really don't think one outweighs the other in that department. Both look to be extremely intelligent animals because both have those large wide set eyes, especially Bernardini. Barbaro reminds me of one of the classy all-time great turf types, and Bernardini reminds me of the classy all-time great dirt types. You have to admit that Bernardini's presence, power, build, and movement remind you of those great horses such as Seattle Slew, Affirmed, and Secretariat for those of you blinded by your obvious bias against and dislike of Bernardini. BOTH HORSES ARE AWESOME.

Of course thoroughbreds are high strung. They wouldn't be called hot blooded horses if they weren't. And I'm sorry, but I don't think Bernardini even compares to Secretariat. Seattle Slew... yes, definitely. Both Slew and Bernardini aren't built all that great, but both have run through their lack on conformation. The fact that you even compared Bernardini to Affirmed makes me laugh. I haven't seen a horse with his build and presence since Easy Goer. Talk about being blinded by bias! LOL

[prudery]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I'm the conformation analysis expert on this board, and I say that both horses are awesome physical specimens of the Thoroughbred breed. I really don't think one outweighs the other in that department. Both look to be extremely intelligent animals because both have those large wide set eyes, especially Bernardini. Barbaro reminds me of one of the classy all-time great turf types, and Bernardini reminds me of the classy all-time great dirt types. You have to admit that Bernardini's presence, power, build, and movement remind you of those great horses such as Seattle Slew, Affirmed, and Secretariat for those of you blinded by your obvious bias against and dislike of Bernardini. BOTH HORSES ARE AWESOME.

There is no conformation analysis in this post . A comparison to three great horses you are " reminded " of which were nothing alike in build says nothing . Which parts of whom are you comparing ?? What turf types do Barbaro look like and how ?? Same for Bernardini . As mentioned, Seattle Slew was not a paragon for the body beautiful . He was awkwardly put together. Conformation people talk of bone, length of cannons, symmetry, joint angles, general correctness which indicates efficiency and soundness . Secretariat was considered by a panel of experts in fields in and out of racing to be a horse whose conformation indicated that he could do anything a sporting horse of any discipline could do---THE horse selected to have this physical makeup---over horses of all breeds . While Bernardini and Barbaro may be fine physical specimens whom you have seen on TV and possibly in still pictures, you give no serious evidence for your comparisons and critiques . Opinion and analysis are very different .

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by prudery

There is no conformation analysis in this post . A comparison to three great horses you are " reminded " of which were nothing alike in build says nothing . Which parts of whom are you comparing ?? What turf types do Barbaro look like and how ?? Same for Bernardini . As mentioned, Seattle Slew was not a paragon for the body beautiful . He was awkwardly put together. Conformation people talk of bone, length of cannons, symmetry, joint angles, general correctness which indicates efficiency and soundness . Secretariat was considered by a panel of experts in fields in and out of racing to be a horse whose conformation indicated that he could do anything a sporting horse of any discipline could do---THE horse selected to have this physical makeup---over horses of all breeds . While Bernardini and Barbaro may be fine physical specimens whom you have seen on TV and possibly in still pictures, you give no serious evidence for your comparisons and critiques . Opinion and analysis are very different .

If you want me to go into a long analysis on Barbaro's and Bernardini's strengths and weaknesses in their conformation I will because I have the knowledge to do so, and learned from one of the best in the nation. Carole Moore is a legend in that department. Get ready to pull out a horse judging manual or a veterinary encyclopedia. In fact, I could actually tear both Bernardini and Barbaro apart in that department. They aren't perfectly conformed from a horse show world judging standpoint, but from a horse racing standpoint, they are certainly built to run. Form follows function. Secretariat is definitely not the best physical specimen there is, but he was perfect for racing. Buckpasser is one that comes to mind, but I would have to really look into the Thoroughbred breed to see what I could find. Also, I have found the perfectly conformed horse for another breed...one that stands out about all the rest. One that the horse show world agrees is actually the best. A unanimous champion. His name is Magnum Pysche, and for an Arabian, he is as close to perfect as you get. I cannot find a single fault in him. He has a perfectly flat croup, a perfect shoulder, perfect angles, a perfect head, a perfect back, perfect cannon bones, perfect forearm muscle...perfect everything and the world agrees.

Watch the entire video. He is a legend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkPV-k9Mvbk

Secretariat was not perfectly built but he was certainly very, very good. I find that most of the horse racing conformation analysis experts in the horse racing world aren't really experts in overall conformation analysis to the rest of us. I have actually been quite baffled by some of the "good" conformation horses racing analysis experts have put up because, in truth, the horses had horrible conformation. See, in the horse show world, we actually have hundreds of classes that actually judge conformation. This is what I am good at. They are called halter or model classes.

Oh yeah, and I judge all breeds! Prudgery you are right in that pictures are can be very misleading, but video is less so. I learned a lot of what I do know from watching videos.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

If you want me to go into a long analysis on Barbaro's and Bernardini's strengths and weaknesses in their conformation I will because I have the knowledge to do so, and learned from one of the best in the nation. Carole Moore is a legend in that department. Get ready to pull out a horse judging manual or a veterinary encyclopedia. In fact, I could actually tear both Bernardini and Barbaro apart in that department. They aren't perfectly conformed from a horse show world judging standpoint, but from a horse racing standpoint, they are certainly built to run. Form follows function. Secretariat is definitely not the best physical specimen there is, but he was perfect for racing. Buckpasser is one that comes to mind, but I would have to really look into the Thoroughbred breed to see what I could find. Also, I have found the perfectly conformed horse for another breed...one that stands out about all the rest. One that the horse show world agrees is actually the best. A unanimous champion. His name is Magnum Pysche, and for an Arabian, he is as close to perfect as you get. I cannot find a single fault in him. He has a perfectly flat croup, a perfect shoulder, perfect angles, a perfect head, a perfect back, perfect cannon bones, perfect forearm muscle...perfect everything and the world agrees.

Watch the entire video. He is a legend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkPV-k9Mvbk

Secretariat was not perfectly built but he was certainly very, very good. I find that most of the horse racing conformation analysis experts in the horse racing world aren't really experts in overall conformation analysis to the rest of us. I have actually been quite baffled by some of the "good" conformation horses racing analysis experts have put up because, in truth, the horses had horrible conformation. See, in the horse show world, we actually have hundreds of classes that actually judge conformation. This is what I am good at. They are called halter or model classes.

Thank you for your response . As I said, Secretariat was judged by persons OUTSIDE the racing field to be perfectly made for any sporting discipline, NOT just racing . Nowhere did I say he was perfect . I always felt his feet were a tad small---as halter horses are horribly known for, especially in the QH world . I know about the horse show world . Plenty of fat and fads as well as quality assessments . Good confirmation may be more geared for speed and efficiency in the racehorse, but the principles are the same --balance,strength, efficiency and symmetry, always . Show people aren't used to the stripped down look of the racehorse which often sports the upside down neck and the like . The yearling sales, conversely, are more show-like, as the yearlings are fat and curvaceous for eye appeal . I assume you are a h/j girl . I am dressage . What looks good to you guys doesn't always apply to us--and most dq's are not Tbred fans . Still, the basics are universal .

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

If you want me to go into a long analysis on Barbaro's and Bernardini's strengths and weaknesses in their conformation I will because I have the knowledge to do so, and learned from one of the best in the nation. Carole Moore is a legend in that department. Get ready to pull out a horse judging manual or a veterinary encyclopedia. In fact, I could actually tear both Bernardini and Barbaro apart in that department. They aren't perfectly conformed from a horse show world judging standpoint, but from a horse racing standpoint, they are certainly built to run. Form follows function. Secretariat is definitely not the best physical specimen there is, but he was perfect for racing. Buckpasser is one that comes to mind, but I would have to really look into the Thoroughbred breed to see what I could find. Also, I have found the perfectly conformed horse for another breed...one that stands out about all the rest. One that the horse show world agrees is actually the best. A unanimous champion. His name is Magnum Pysche, and for an Arabian, he is as close to perfect as you get. I cannot find a single fault in him. He has a perfectly flat croup, a perfect shoulder, perfect angles, a perfect head, a perfect back, perfect cannon bones, perfect forearm muscle...perfect everything and the world agrees.

Watch the entire video. He is a legend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkPV-k9Mvbk

Secretariat was not perfectly built but he was certainly very, very good. I find that most of the horse racing conformation analysis experts in the horse racing world aren't really experts in overall conformation analysis to the rest of us. I have actually been quite baffled by some of the "good" conformation horses racing analysis experts have put up because, in truth, the horses had horrible conformation. See, in the horse show world, we actually have hundreds of classes that actually judge conformation. This is what I am good at. They are called halter or model classes.

OH BY THE WAY HERE ARE SOME OF MY CREDENTIALS. GO DOWN TO THE JUDGING PHASE AND YOU WILL SEE ME RIGHT THERE "SECOND TOP YOUTH IN THE NATION" IN 2003. JESSICA HARRAWAY.

http://www.4hroundup.com/results/arc...-hippology.htm

HERE IS THE QUARTER HORSE CONGRESS WEBSITE IN WHICH I WAS OVERALL INDIVIDUAL CHAMPION, YET ANOTHER NATIONAL COMPETITION. EASTERN NATIONALS IS THE ONE THAT COUNTS FOR TOP HONORS THOUGH. I HAVEN'T POSTED THESE PICTURES BECAUSE I WAS HAVING A REALLY BAD HAIR DAY, LOOK HORRIBLE, AND WAS EXHAUSTED. PLUS, YOU ALL WOULD ONLY SAY THAT I WAS ONLY BRAGGING. I'M JUST DEFENDING MY CREDIBILITY. SCROLL DOWN THE PAGE AND YOU WILL SEE MY NAME AT THE TOP OF ALMOST EVERY LIST UNDER THE HIPPOLOGY SECTION.

http://www.oqha.com/CONGRESS/hip03.html

Oh yeah, and I judge all breeds! Prudgery you are right in that pictures are can be very misleading, but video is less so. I learned a lot of what I do know from watching videos.

I agree re: Magnum Psyche, saw him win Nationals, I have a Padrons Psyche son and am breeding to a black Magnum Psyche son this spring, an absolutely breathtaking horse is Magnum Psyche, I also saw him as a yearling and he was as beautiful than an he is now! I agree also about judging show horses and race horses, it's actually harder in that show horses are being bred to be conformationally perfect, racehorses are bred for speed, anyone who has done rescue or has ex-racers can attest to how bad their conformation sometimes is, the judging there is completely different. I acually thought Seattle Slew was pretty unattractive, and Pleasnat Colony was downright hideous!

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

To me, Bernardini looks like a high strung maniac, but that's just me. (Bluegrass Cat does too.) I appreciate the classic thoroughbred appearance and wide set eyes of Barbaro much more so if we're going to be talking about looks. You really can't even compare the two. Barbaro looks the part of a champion IMO.

Well that is where personal opinions come in, to me Bernardini is absolutely the most beautiful horse I have seen in years, his build and his motion are awesome. I actually think a lot of TB's tend to be a little rangy and long headed ( hey, I'm an Arabian breeder) but every now and then you see a TB like Bernardini that has the beautifully shaped chiselled head, keen ears, set close together and a powerfully arched neck, just a beautiful horse. I absolutely love Barbaro as well, but if judging them in a halter class, it would be Bernardini, hands down.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Well that is where personal opinions come in, to me Bernardini is absolutely the most beautiful horse I have seen in years, his build and his motion are awesome. I actually think a lot of TB's tend to be a little rangy and long headed ( hey, I'm an Arabian breeder) but every now and then you see a TB like Bernardini that has the beautifully shaped chiselled head, keen ears, set close together and a powerfully arched neck, just a beautiful horse. I absolutely love Barbaro as well, but if judging them in a halter class, it would be Bernardini, hands down.

If you're an arab breeder, then I definitely understand why you find him more correct than Barbaro. He's got an arab-like head for sure.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

If you're an arab breeder, then I definitely understand why you find him more correct than Barbaro. He's got an arab-like head for sure.

Yeah, me too