Horse of the Year?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

Yes, She got a great trip, I look at it as a strength rather than being lucky...the pace was quick, she has a high crusing speed, despite being close to the pace she booted clear in a split second and it was over. That was impressive if you ask me, more than what Curlin showed in his last 3 races.

And don't get me wrong...there were lots of "wow"s falling out of my mouth at Santa Anita after that race, I just think in retrospect it wasn't quite as amazing as it looked after sitting just off of the almost-certain-to-collapse-speed of Thorn Song and Daytona, and though it was a quicker pace, she got kind of exactly the trip that played to her style...cruising along with the rest and then seeing which runner can sprint the fastest for a quarter mile.

I give her plenty of credit where credit is due, but I don't think that the actual merit of the performance stacks up at all to the breathtaking visual of the performance...which is not imply that it wasn't a huge run, just maybe not as huge as it seems.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

And don't get me wrong...there were lots of "wow"s falling out of my mouth at Santa Anita after that race, I just think in retrospect it wasn't quite as amazing as it looked after sitting just off of the almost-certain-to-collapse-speed of Thorn Song and Daytona, and though it was a quicker pace, she got kind of exactly the trip that played to her style...cruising along with the rest and then seeing which runner can sprint the fastest for a quarter mile.

I give her plenty of credit where credit is due, but I don't think that the actual merit of the performance stacks up at all to the breathtaking visual of the performance...which is not imply that it wasn't a huge run, just maybe not as huge as it seems.

I didn't mean to imply you were not giving her credit, I know where you were coming from. The 2nd and 3rd place horses coming out of the race didn't distinguish themselves in their next starts, though one raced in HK which is never easy. Her form in Europe certainly suggests her BC race was not a fluke, rather it is the type of performance we expected. To me it was more impressive than any of Ouiji Board's BC's and that one is held to a very high standard over here.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I didn't mean to imply you were not giving her credit, I know where you were coming from. The 2nd and 3rd place horses coming out of the race didn't distinguish themselves in their next starts, though one raced in HK which is never easy. Her form in Europe certainly suggests her BC race was not a fluke, rather it is the type of performance we expected. To me it was more impressive than any of Ouiji Board's BC's and that one is held to a very high standard over here.

Oh wow, you really do love Goldikova...I won't even touch that one

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Oh wow, you really do love Goldikova...I won't even touch that one

Obviously Ouija Board was a great filly I have no argument with anyone there, really I cited her BC races to be accurate and not her entire career. She beat Film Maker twice in her own division in the BC, whereas Goldikova beat males and given how she did it with an explosive turn of foot. In my opinion I was more impressed by Goldikova's race than any of the 2 BC wins Ouija Board ran.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

Obviously Ouija Board was a great filly I have no argument with anyone there, really I cited her BC races to be accurate and not her entire career. She beat Film Maker twice in her own division in the BC, whereas Goldikova beat males and given how she did it with an explosive turn of foot. In my opinion I was more impressed by Goldikova's race than any of the 2 BC wins Ouija Board ran.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'd rank Ouija Board's '05 FM Turf way above this year's mile.

Goldikova basically had Kip Deville, Precious Kitten, and Whatsthescript to beat along with the seemingly over the top Daytona and the run or none type Shakis, while Ouija Board had Film Maker, Megahertz, Wonder Again, Intercontinental, Karen's Caper, and if you want to stretch it, even Wend to beat (though she was never a real GI runner).

I'd take that latter cast as more rock solid than beating males in this year's BC. I think beating males only counts if there is a solid cast of males to beat lined up against you.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'd rank Ouija Board's '05 FM Turf way above this year's mile.

Goldikova basically had Kip Deville, Precious Kitten, and Whatsthescript to beat along with the seemingly over the top Daytona and the run or none type Shakis, while Ouija Board had Film Maker, Megahertz, Wonder Again, Intercontinental, Karen's Caper, and if you want to stretch it, even Wend to beat (though she was never a real GI runner).

I'd take that latter cast as more rock solid than beating males in this year's BC. I think beating males only counts if there is a solid cast of males to beat lined up against you.

Brian, the 2004 race OB beat Megarhertz and Wonder Again, Moscow Burning set a slow pace that day. In 05 she actually finished 2nd to Intercontinental. Probably the best horse she ever beat in the BC was Wait A While in 06. She had a nice turn of foot and her longevity is a plus also, as for Goldikova I do think there is something to be said of a 3 yr old filly beating older horses, but more it's the way in which she did it, her turn of foot arguably was more impressive than any of Ouija Board's BC races. There's no denying both are super nice fillies and maybe I am in the minority here but I'd take her race over any of Ouija Board's in a second.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

I didn't mean to imply you were not giving her credit, I know where you were coming from. The 2nd and 3rd place horses coming out of the race didn't distinguish themselves in their next starts, though one raced in HK which is never easy. Her form in Europe certainly suggests her BC race was not a fluke, rather it is the type of performance we expected. To me it was more impressive than any of Ouiji Board's BC's and that one is held to a very high standard over here.

i'm trying to keep in mind that you're comparing bc races, not the horses...because ouija board was a special horse. i'd also think that everyone expected both of these gals to win due to ability in the one(OB), and the competition, or lack thereof, facing the other.

[cakes44]

Give it to Curlin in a very weak year. Hystericalady would have beaten Zenyatta on the dirt this year IMO.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Give it to Curlin in a very weak year. Hystericalady would have beaten Zenyatta on the dirt this year IMO.

Hysterical Lady couldn't warm Zenyatta up on any surface.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Hysterical Lady couldn't warm Zenyatta up on any surface.

you have no proof of that

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Hysterical Lady couldn't warm Zenyatta up on any surface.

In a fairly run race, with a legit pace, this is probably true. But if that Lady's Secret of this year had been run on dirt, I truly believe that Zenyatta would have a loss on her record.

[Stickhorse]

Zenyatta is a big fav of mine but it is going to be so difficult to keep her streak alive. She could have easily lost the day of the Vanity. It was a true test for her heart to win on a day when she was not at her best.

Here is a predicition for '09:
Cocoa Beach will be the first to beat Zenyatta.

[Theatrical]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

In a fairly run race, with a legit pace, this is probably true. But if that Lady's Secret of this year had been run on dirt, I truly believe that Zenyatta would have a loss on her record.

;


I believe you need to go back and look at the Lady's Secret on youtube. There was no way Zenyatta was going to have a loss in that race. Dirt or otherwise.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

In a fairly run race, with a legit pace, this is probably true. But if that Lady's Secret of this year had been run on dirt, I truly believe that Zenyatta would have a loss on her record.

so what your saying is Zenyatta is not as good on dirt (which is wrong, watch her Apple Blossom) and that is some event that a fluke happens, like 24 and 50 that should could beat her. I guess we can lay out any scenario and guess at what COULD happen. Fact is they raced twice and HL got embarrassed like a second rate horse (which she is really if you want to look historically) and Zenyatta is a very good horse in any generation, and frankly on any surface (I would love to see her on turf).

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Hysterical Lady couldn't warm Zenyatta up on any surface.

I have a REALLY hard time seeing Zenyatta beating Hystericalady in the Fleur de Lis, Delaware Handicap, or Molly Pitcher in 2008.

[hi_im_god]

i think someone let mort read the last 2 pages here and that's what really offended him.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'm trying to keep in mind that you're comparing bc races, not the horses...because ouija board was a special horse. i'd also think that everyone expected both of these gals to win due to ability in the one(OB), and the competition, or lack thereof, facing the other.

Contrary Danzig, I do have a great deal of respect for Ouija Board, she danced alot dances and more times than not she always showed up and accounted herself well. Her connections definitely took chances with her and I think she is well respected for that and deservedly so!