Pletcher BC positive; Hearing pending

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

However - when I compare Pletcher's positive for a whiff of mepivicaine (and the procaine), to Biancone's, "I didn't know the cobra venom was in my barn" and Rod Stewart's, "My wife emptied the fridge and I didn't know either" - then add in Biancone's past (international) history, and Pletcher's past history - well, Pletcher isn't the one I'm going to turn up my nose in disgust at.

So basically, what you're saying is that a guy who's had two seperate horses (that won or placed in races) with significant levels of local anesthetic in their systems during the immediate post-race period looks rosier than a guy who had an unused vial of illegal medication sitting in a refridgerator.

That's like saying you'd prefer to be driving along the freeway with a drunk driver, rather than a guy with a dimebag in his glove compartment.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

So basically, what you're saying is that a guy who's had two seperate horses (that won or placed in races) with significant levels of local anesthetic in their systems during the immediate post-race period looks rosier than a guy who had an unused vial of illegal medication sitting in a refridgerator.

That's like saying you'd prefer to be driving along the freeway with a drunk driver, rather than a guy with a dimebag in his glove compartment.

The levels were not "significant". They were low.

Pletcher had a positive for mepivicaine, a Class 2 therapeutic drug (a therapeutic med that has "potential to impact performance") at such a low level that it is now legal.

And he has a positive for procaine, a Class 3 therapeutic med with "little to no ability to impact performance".

Biancone was guilty of having prohibited drugs on the racetrack grounds in his barn. It wasn't just cobra venom, it was also levodopa and carbidopa (last two drugs used to treat nerve tremors in humans with Parkinson's).

All three drugs being Class A violations (the ultimate) for simply having them on racetrack grounds; Class A drugs have "the highest potential to impact racing performance with zero therapeutic benefit to horses".

There are currently no tests whatsoever to detect these three drugs in the horse. Cobra venom is a local anesthetic that's been around for some time. It's only use at the racetrack is to try and create anesthesia that cannot be detected.

Yes. I absolutely view Pletcher's violations as far less serious than Biancone's. As a veterinarian, I don't take a violation of the racing rules, or potential horse abuse, lightly.

To use your analogy, Pletcher is driving after having a Coors Light; while Biancones glove compartment is filled with heroin and angel dust, and he's speeding down the highway in the wrong lane with his eyes closed.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Riot

The levels were not "significant". They were low.

To use an analogy, that is like saying "I'm a little pregnant". Either you are or you aren't.

[Payson Dave]

Originally Posted by CSC

To use an analogy, that is like saying "I'm a little pregnant". Either you are or you aren't.

gotta say that imho the Pletcher situation vs the Biancone situation is a little different than your analogy...
more like two students that get suspended from school for violation of no drugs on school grounds......one gets caught taking asprin for a headache....the other gets caught with an eightball of blow in his locker....


The question that remains unanswered is.....What (if anything) is/was in the locker of the kid with the headache???

[reese]

Originally Posted by CSC

To use an analogy, that is like saying "I'm a little pregnant". Either you are or you aren't.

That comment has to be one of the dumbest I've read.

WHY do you think 90% of LEGAL medications have clearly specified "withdrawal intervals" before a horse can race?
Nothing in race horse drug administration is remotely akin to being pregnant...

As stated, Pletcher's overage of procaine occured via an antibiotic injection and the horse cleared the allowable interval for the drug to dissipate, but in this horse, it did not.

As stated, Pletcher's horse was treated with an allowable and legal medication. There is NO part of Cobra venom that is allowable or legal for race horses...

As an aside, Baffert was acussed several years ago of using "cocaine" on a horse. His attorney, Papianio, beat the rap by proving that the amount of cocaine found in the horse was "akin to a drop of water in a swimming pool" and Baffert's horse was unintentuonally contaiminated via casual contact.

What I'd like to understand is why are CA trainers like Sadler and O'Neill repeatedly caught using steroids and/or milkshakes but get a "pass warning"and Pletcher is castigated for a LEGAL medication overage...

[CSC]

Originally Posted by reese

That comment has to be one of the dumbest I've read.

WHY do you think 90% of LEGAL medications have clearly specified "withdrawal intervals" before a horse can race?
Nothing in race horse drug administration is remotely akin to being pregnant...

As stated, Pletcher's overage of procaine occured via an antibiotic injection and the horse cleared the allowable interval for the drug to dissipate, but in this horse, it did not.

As stated, Pletcher's horse was treated with an allowable and legal medication. There is NO part of Cobra venom that is allowable or legal for race horses...

As an aside, Baffert was acussed several years ago of using "cocaine" on a horse. His attorney, Papianio, beat the rap by proving that the amount of cocaine found in the horse was "akin to a drop of water in a swimming pool" and Baffert's horse was unintentuonally contaiminated via casual contact.

What I'd like to understand is why are CA trainers like Sadler and O'Neill repeatedly caught using steroids and/or milkshakes but get a "pass warning"and Pletcher is castigated for a LEGAL medication overage...

I'll have to think about that dumbest thing comment abit more, but in short do you seriously think the N.Y stewards would hand down a 45 day suspension if it was an coincidental incident. They could have slapped him on the wrists for sloppiness but chose the latter.

BTW How would you know the original dose wasn't a significant amount? The point is the stewards deemed something was not right and they administered the punishment. I guess they just picked out a random number ...

[reese]

The violation is cut and dry...horse tested and was positive for procaine in CA.

All racing venues support violations handed down by other tracks. NY supported CA's finding of "an overage of procaine" Pletcher is appealing via Papianio in CA.

IF, IF you read the article re Plertcher's violation(which obviously you didn't
because YOU are commenting when you are UNINFORMED) you WOULD know ALL horses in the BC were tested.

Pletcher's horse got AN antibiotic for an infection. Procaine was USED with an intramuscalur antibiotic injection. Pletcher's horse tested positive for a minute amount...verified as being injected into the horse with the antibiotic 18 days prior.

The interval for clearance of procaine is 15 days. Pletcher's horse still had procaine in it's system AFTER the specified dissipation interval.
Hence, the CA violation supported by NY( and ALL) until an appeal.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by reese

The violation is cut and dry...horse tested and was positive for procaine in CA.

All racing venues support violations handed down by other tracks. NY supported CA's finding of "an overage of procaine" Pletcher is appealing via Papianio in CA.

IF, IF you read the article re Plertcher's violation(which obviously you didn't
because YOU are commenting when you are UNINFORMED) you WOULD know ALL horses in the BC were tested.

Pletcher's horse got AN antibiotic for an infection. Procaine was USED with an intramuscalur antibiotic injection. Pletcher's horse tested positive for a minute amount...verified as being injected into the horse with the antibiotic 18 days prior.

The interval for clearance of procaine is 15 days. Pletcher's horse still had procaine in it's system AFTER the specified dissipation interval.
Hence, the CA violation supported by NY( and ALL) until an appeal.

Who's talking about procaine...I was reffering to his horse's testing positive for mepivacaine in a race he won at Saratoga in 2004, an anesthetic that has "a high potential to affect performance." Follow the bouncing ball please...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by CSC

I'll have to think about that dumbest thing comment abit more, but in short do you seriously think the N.Y stewards would hand down a 45 day suspension if it was an coincidental incident. They could have slapped him on the wrists for sloppiness but chose the latter.

BTW How would you know the original dose wasn't a significant amount? The point is the stewards deemed something was not right and they administered the punishment. I guess they just picked out a random number ...

Drugs can be measured to accuracy in very minute amounts.

For example, in NY, caffeine is prohibited at over 100 nanograms per millilter. Do you view the trainer who is "positive for caffeine" at 101 ng/ml the same as the trainer who is "positive for caffeine" at 660 ng/ml?

Steve posted a connection to Pletchers mepivicaine case hearing and legal defense here, and the dose found in the horse was published (in fact, it was the basis of his entire defense).

Go to http://rulings.racing.state.ny.us/frm_Rulings.aspx and you can search and read all NYRC rulings regarding drug violations. You can google the Pletcher mepivicaine thing.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Riot

Drugs can be measured to accuracy in very minute amounts.

For example, in NY, caffeine is prohibited at over 100 nanograms per millilter. Do you view the trainer who is "positive for caffeine" at 101 ng/ml the same as the trainer who is "positive for caffeine" at 660 ng/ml?

Steve posted a connection to Pletchers mepivicaine case hearing and legal defense here, and the dose found in the horse was published (in fact, it was the basis of his entire defense).

Go to http://rulings.racing.state.ny.us/frm_Rulings.aspx and you can search and read all NYRC rulings regarding drug violations. You can google the Pletcher mepivicaine thing.

Not to change the subject but frankly I am surprised by the few here that are going to such great lengths in defending him, there are alot of astute knowledgeble minds that already have brought up great examples of why they believe not all was on the up and up with his stable. You have to be blind to not believe it was possible. I have no problem saying it is my alledged belief that Todd was a juicer, I have very little doubts about this fact.