Joel Rosario

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

His ride on Obrigado was an embarassment. Handed Valdivia the race by going wide on the turn. I guess thats why Rosario never wins any big/Grade I races......the guy is a choke artist when the money is on the line.

How does a guy "choke" on a 23-1 shot? He saved ground all the way around the track and went wide on the final turn so he didnt lose momentum. Im sure he would have loved to sit chilly and wait but Obrigado isnt enough horse to give you multiple runs.

Rosario never wins grade 1's because he doesnt get the mounts yet to win grade 1's with.

Choke artist? LOL.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Anybody getting that Firewood to hunt is doing pretty good. That's always been a hanging mess. He gets a lot of bad horses to win rallying outside. That's his style. He needs to improve on chalk. If that's because of nerves, then you have some small point. If I have one of the top 3 favorites (to win a pick 4,) I am not usually worried about the other top betting choices beating me. I'm worried about Joel massaging some hog into the winners circle.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

How does a guy "choke" on a 23-1 shot? He saved ground all the way around the track and went wide on the final turn so he didnt lose momentum. Im sure he would have loved to sit chilly and wait but Obrigado isnt enough horse to give you multiple runs.

Rosario never wins grade 1's because he doesnt get the mounts yet to win grade 1's with.

Choke artist? LOL.

You don't think he blew that race? Come on. Watch the replay. Any smart jock wouldn't panic and go wide like that. He lost a ton of ground by going around the dying Winchester. He could have stayed inside and blown by the winner in the stretch....but he didnt and cost the connections a Grade I win.

The odds mean nothing when it comes to choking...I dont care if the horse was 1-9 or 40-1. Even with the incredibly dumb move by Rosario Obrigado still almost won.

And he doesnt get Grade I mounts because? There is a reason...and you saw it Saturday.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

You don't think he blew that race? Come on. Watch the replay. Any smart jock wouldn't panic and go wide like that. He lost a ton of ground by going around the dying Winchester. He could have stayed inside and blown by the winner in the stretch....but he didnt and cost the connections a Grade I win.

The odds mean nothing when it comes to choking...I dont care if the horse was 1-9 or 40-1. Even with the incredibly dumb move by Rosario Obrigado still almost won.

And he doesnt get Grade I mounts because? There is a reason...and you saw it Saturday.

I think you had a win ticket on a horse that didn't win. Your rant is called SOUR GRAPES. My Beagle is the only one that has to listen when I have a loser, except when the rider is Alex Solis. Time to move on.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

I think you had a win ticket on a horse that didn't win. Your rant is called SOUR GRAPES. My Beagle is the only one that has to listen when I have a loser, except when the rider is Alex Solis. Time to move on.

Thats funny.....I guess every time someone criticizes a jock that it's sour grapes...they had a huge win bet....etc.

I didnt have a DIME on the race. I just was watching the race and noticed what a bad decision it was by Rosario. I know this board is full of love and cheer and some people who are blind to the obvious, but believe it or not, these jocks do make stupid decisions.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Joel had to make a decision. We have all seen situations where that Mr. Chairman could have tired, and Winchester could have kept Obrigado stuck down on the rail. That could of happened to Valdivia too. Both horses had run, and got a clean chance to show it. Fact is the winner had a lot more to give at the top(and middle) of the stretch. Obrigado didn't have that burst, and it's not because he went a lil wider than the winner. It's because he is twenty some odd to 1. He's not as good. Joel makes it look close at the end because he is good, but the time to run was earlier than that, and he didn't have the stuff to give that the winner did. I will take that ride on Obrigado any day, because I have lost a lot more races doing what Valdivia did(hope for perfect trip, and get out.) Weren't there guys that tried that last weekend, and Dominguez came wide to blow by them? How many races has Nakatani lost by being on the rail and expecting others to give him a way out? A lot. Looks smart when you get it, but I have lost a lot more races due to guys expecting that perfect way out that Valdivia got. Looks pretty when it goes well. Looks pretty crappy if that 6 had backed up and Smullen had locked somebody down on the rail. Look going into the 1st turn of this race. Smullen makes a bit of a dangerous move to cut Rosario off a lil bit. I don't think he wanted that to happen again. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WOULD OF TAKEN PLACE IF SMULLEN HAD MORE HORSE, AND CHAIRMAN TIRED.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Joel had to make a decision. We have all seen situations where that Mr. Chairman could have tired, and Winchester could have kept Obrigado stuck down on the rail. That could of happened to Valdivia too. Both horses had run, and got a clean chance to show it. Fact is the winner had a lot more to give at the top(and middle) of the stretch. Obrigado didn't have that burst, and it's not because he went a lil wider than the winner. It's because he is twenty some odd to 1. He's not as good. Joel makes it look close at the end because he is good, but the time to run was earlier than that, and he didn't have the stuff to give that the winner did. I will take that ride on Obrigado any day, because I have lost a lot more races doing what Valdivia did(hope for perfect trip, and get out.) Weren't there guys that tried that last weekend, and Dominguez came wide to blow by them? How many races has Nakatani lost by being on the rail and expecting others to give him a way out? A lot. Looks smart when you get it, but I have lost a lot more races due to guys expecting that perfect way out that Valdivia got. Looks pretty when it goes well. Looks pretty crappy if that 6 had backed up and Smullen had locked somebody down on the rail. Look going into the 1st turn of this race. Smullen makes a bit of a dangerous move to cut Rosario off a lil bit. I don't think he wanted that to happen again.

Perhaps the most moronic thing I have seen posted on the net. Congrats. I didn't know that as the horses went into the starting gate that they are told their odds. What happens if someone mistakenly told Champ Elysees that he was 30-1, would he not try as hard...perhaps not run well.

Perhaps you should take some time this afternoon and get fitted for a dunce cap.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Perhaps the most moronic thing I have seen posted on the net. Congrats. I didn't know that as the horses went into the starting gate that they are told their odds. What happens if someone mistakenly told Champ Elysees that he was 30-1, would he not try as hard...perhaps not run well.

Perhaps you should take some time this afternoon and get fitted for a dunce cap.

If you think Obrigado was as good as C.E. yesterday, then you need the dunce cap. Horse had a chance to run, and couldn't go with the better horse. Look, the horse is clear. He has every chance to go with the winner, but can't do it. He is not as good. They both had every chance to show what they had. Frankel horse has more run(real big surprise guys.) I wish you would save bad rides for when you've got run, and can't get out to show it. That is not a bad ride. That's the way this rider wins a lot of races. Like I said, you're gunna be complaining a lot about horses who come up just short against Frankel chalk. This guy is gunna tease like this. It's what he does.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Joel had to make a decision. We have all seen situations where that Mr. Chairman could have tired, and Winchester could have kept Obrigado stuck down on the rail. That could of happened to Valdivia too. Both horses had run, and got a clean chance to show it. Fact is the winner had a lot more to give at the top(and middle) of the stretch. Obrigado didn't have that burst, and it's not because he went a lil wider than the winner. It's because he is twenty some odd to 1. He's not as good. Joel makes it look close at the end because he is good, but the time to run was earlier than that, and he didn't have the stuff to give that the winner did. I will take that ride on Obrigado any day, because I have lost a lot more races doing what Valdivia did(hope for perfect trip, and get out.) Weren't there guys that tried that last weekend, and Dominguez came wide to blow by them? How many races has Nakatani lost by being on the rail and expecting others to give him a way out? A lot. Looks smart when you get it, but I have lost a lot more races due to guys expecting that perfect way out that Valdivia got. Looks pretty when it goes well. Looks pretty crappy if that 6 had backed up and Smullen had locked somebody down on the rail. Look going into the 1st turn of this race. Smullen makes a bit of a dangerous move to cut Rosario off a lil bit. I don't think he wanted that to happen again. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WOULD OF TAKEN PLACE IF SMULLEN HAD MORE HORSE, AND CHAIRMAN TIRED.

Exactly. Its kind of like when a QB throws an intereception and the automatic reaction is that its the QB's fault. Could The receiver have made a bad read? Could The pass have been perfect but the defense just made a great play? So many variables and people focus simply on the result.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

You don't think he blew that race? Come on. Watch the replay. Any smart jock wouldn't panic and go wide like that. He lost a ton of ground by going around the dying Winchester. He could have stayed inside and blown by the winner in the stretch....but he didnt and cost the connections a Grade I win.

The odds mean nothing when it comes to choking...I dont care if the horse was 1-9 or 40-1. Even with the incredibly dumb move by Rosario Obrigado still almost won.

And he doesnt get Grade I mounts because? There is a reason...and you saw it Saturday.

I watched the race again. Its not like he went ten wide. He angled the horse outside for clear run and what he lost in ground he gained back in momentum. The inside horse (winchester), hadnt yet died and as they went around the turn, the jockey whipped left handed twice forcing Obrigado out a smidge further while opening up the hole for the winner.

"choking" implies that Rosario was on the horse that was much the best and his ride killed the chances of his mount. This is hardly the case. He was on a 23-1 shot and lost to the favorite. He put his horse in great position.

For the record, he hasnt gotten grade 1 mounts because this is his first full season of riding in So Cal and there just arent very many grade 1 mounts to go around down there. He will get many grade 1 wins in his career and I will be sure to remind you every time he wins one.

[geeker2]

^^^^ Very Impressive

[GPK]

Originally Posted by geeker2

^^^^ Very Impressive

^^butt kisser

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by GPK

^^butt kisser

[SCUDSBROTHER]

You're gunna have a lot of win tickets on price horses running 2nd to Frankel's chalk. It's like his hobby is looking for the soft spots on a baby's head. He usually finds it.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by GPK

^^butt kisser

choo betcha

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I watched the race again. Its not like he went ten wide. He angled the horse outside for clear run and what he lost in ground he gained back in momentum. The inside horse (winchester), hadnt yet died and as they went around the turn, the jockey whipped left handed twice forcing Obrigado out a smidge further while opening up the hole for the winner.

"choking" implies that Rosario was on the horse that was much the best and his ride killed the chances of his mount. This is hardly the case. He was on a 23-1 shot and lost to the favorite. He put his horse in great position.

For the record, he hasnt gotten grade 1 mounts because this is his first full season of riding in So Cal and there just arent very many grade 1 mounts to go around down there. He will get many grade 1 wins in his career and I will be sure to remind you every time he wins one.

Obrigado was much the best yesterday...even Stevie Wonder would agree. When a jock loses on the best horse he chokes....makes a horrible decision..whatever you want to call it. Yesterday he cost Obrigado a Grade I win.

Rosario is an average jock. Because the so-cal colony is so weak he does get the wins. But when they run grade I's out there, the real riders show up.

I will anxiously be awaiting your post when he gets a grade I win. I figure I will check back with you in 2011.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What will reminding him everytime Rosario wins a grade 1 prove? What bearing will those events have on his ride yesterday? I'm not picking a fight, but I never understood when someone brings up a bad ride, or a percieved bad ride. Eventually someone will bring up the jocks next win, or something like that as if it has anything to do with what is being talked about. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Actually, it has nothing to do with yesterday's ride. What i am responding to is the claim that Rosario doesnt get grade 1 mounts because he chokes.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I just watched the replay of the race 5 times. I'm not sure "choke" is the right word either, but his decision to go outside instead of stay inside like Valdivia did absolutely cost him the win. I'm not sure how that can even be debated.

But, up to that point he had his horse in a perfect spot. No shame in getting outridden by Valdivia on the turf as I think he's a fantastic turf rider. But, Rosario should have won that race IMO. And I can absolutely understand someone that bet Obrigado having a beef with the outcome or thinking that the rider of Obrigado cost the horse the win. Especially with the finish so close.

Thank you. Again..I didnt bet the horse..was making a point. If you want to subsitute "Choke" with "stupid decision" thats fine.

Rosario is an ok jock.....my point is...he completely blew the race yesterday.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I just watched the replay of the race 5 times. I'm not sure "choke" is the right word either, but his decision to go outside instead of stay inside like Valdivia did absolutely cost him the win. I'm not sure how that can even be debated.

But, up to that point he had his horse in a perfect spot. No shame in getting outridden by Valdivia on the turf as I think he's a fantastic turf rider. But, Rosario should have won that race IMO. And I can absolutely understand someone that bet Obrigado having a beef with the outcome or thinking that the rider of Obrigado cost the horse the win. Especially with the finish so close.

I disagree with your assessment of the horse's chances. How do you know that if Obrigado stays inside that smullen doesnt try to shut the door on him inside? Remember, he whips left handed around the turn forcing Obrigado outside two paths. Champs, on class, is about 20 lengths ahead of Obrigado on paper. How do you know champs doesnt break outside for the big run?

All of these different factors and you can say unequivically that the ride cost him the race? Valdivia is an excellent turf rider but he its easy in a race like that to sit chilly when you are on the best horse. If he gets shut off inside, champs is good enough to make a run to the outside. Does this not make any sense? Or are you really under the notion that Obrigado was "much the best" in any race that isnt claiming?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

First of all, races aren't run on paper, as I'm sure you know. So what the 2 respective horses looked like on paper had and has nothing to do with it. .

I simply dont agree with this statement.

Jockeys read the racing form and many of the decisions they make during the race are based on past performances. A jockey isnt going to ride the favorite the same way he is going to ride a 23-1 shot.

If there was s a cheaper horse in front of him instead of Winchester (2-1), perhaps Rosario would have waited. There are a bunch of variables that go into every race so i dont know how you can say that what was on paper had nothing to do with it.