2009 Graded Stakes

[blackthroatedwind]

This would, very possibly, be an unfortunate year for the Suburban to be downgraded. I'm not arguing that it shouldn't necessarily be reviewed, given some recent runnings, but I hope it is given at least one more chance.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This would, very possibly, be an unfortunate year for the Suburban to be downgraded. I'm not arguing that it shouldn't necessarily be reviewed, given some recent runnings, but I hope it is given at least one more chance.

I'm having a tough time stomaching the Jamaica Handicap as a bigger race than the Suburban.

[blackthroatedwind]

The Jamaica is a Grade 2.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The Jamaica is a Grade 2.

Not anymore apparently.

[blackthroatedwind]

That seems a little odd but I guess it is no worse these days than the Hollywood Derby and Secretariat. Better, in fact, than the former the last year or even two.

Turf races that are restricted to 3YOs may never feel like Grade 1s in this country. Maybe by making the Jamaica a Grade 1, which I assume means they have increased the purse, they will be able to attract some Euros.

[Linny]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/48193.htm

Here's the report. Jamaica a G1, Suburban a G2. Vinery Madison a G1, Ark Derby a G2.

Go figure...

[SniperSB23]

So they'll be exactly one G1 race for older males at 10 furlongs on the dirt next year. There are more for 3yo fillies.

[Scav]

So the three new races from the BC from Monmouth were upgraded to two Grade 1's and a Grade 2, not bad, and after next year, there will be two more grade 1's (FM Turf, FM Classic), two more Grade 2's (Juv Filly Turf, Turf Sprint), and a Grade 3 (Marathon)

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Scav

So the three new races from the BC from Monmouth were upgraded to two Grade 1's and a Grade 2, not bad, and after next year, there will be two more grade 1's (FM Turf, FM Classic), two more Grade 2's (Juv Filly Turf, Turf Sprint), and a Grade 3 (Marathon)

Huh? The F/M Turf and "Ladies Classic " are G1. The hard thing to get over is that the Dirt Mile (starring Albertus Maximus and Corinthian) is a G1.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Linny

Huh? The F/M Turf and "Ladies Classic " are G1. The hard thing to get over is that the Dirt Mile (starring Albertus Maximus and Corinthian) is a G1.

My bad, FM Turf is a Grade 1 already, Ladies Classic is not, not run enough yet, i thought they had to run at least two years before they get graded status??

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I'm having a tough time stomaching the Jamaica Handicap as a bigger race than the Suburban.

Different divisions makes it an unfair comparison. Each division's races have to be compared to other races within that division, not to races in a different division. Obviously, a race like the Oak Leaf Stakes is not a bigger race with better quality horses than the Oaklawn Hcp. But that's not the the way to look at it, I don't think. I think that the best races in a given division should get the highest ratings. The Madison is one of the three or four best races in the filly/mare sprinters division. The Jamaica is one of the three or four best races for 3yo grass runners. The Suburban is no longer one of the top races for older males.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Different divisions makes it an unfair comparison. Each division's races have to be compared to other races within that division, not to races in a different division. Obviously, a race like the Oak Leaf Stakes is not a bigger race with better quality horses than the Oaklawn Hcp. But that's not the the way to look at it, I don't think. I think that the best races in a given division should get the highest ratings. The Madison is one of the three or four best races in the filly/mare sprinters division. The Jamaica is one of the three or four best races for 3yo grass runners. The Suburban is no longer one of the top races for older males.

Fair point, but by that logic the Virginia Derby should be a G1 over the Jamaica, IMO. Gio Ponti, Red Giant, Go Between, English Channel, Kitten's Joy, and Silver Tree are the last 6 winners. Find me a better turf race for 3YO's than that.

And I have pictures of two of the last four winners of the Jamaica hanging in my house.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by philcski

And I have pictures of two of the last four winners of the Jamaica hanging in my house.

You're scaring me.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You're scaring me.

Well, I have two pictures of you hanging in my house too, does that scare you?













THUD

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by philcski

Fair point, but by that logic the Virginia Derby should be a G1 over the Jamaica, IMO. Gio Ponti, Red Giant, Go Between, English Channel, Kitten's Joy, and Silver Tree are the last 6 winners. Find me a better turf race for 3YO's than that.

And I have pictures of two of the last four winners of the Jamaica hanging in my house.

You'd get no argument from me at all. I think the VA Derby should be the higher rated of the two.

On the subject of the Arkansas Derby, I think it's ridiculous that it's not on par with the Blue Grass, Wood, Florida Derby, and SA Derby. I think they should all be grade two races since they are preps for the real big one but I'm not going to argue whether they should be one's or two's. Whatever they are, they should all be the same. To have the Arkansas Derby as the same grade as it's prep, the Rebel, is beyond stupid.

[blackthroatedwind]

Monterey Jazz is now running in the Cigar.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Monterey Jazz is now running in the Cigar.

Was that intended to impress me?

When he's right he's a pretty good horse. There's not much out there but with Commentator and Magna Graduate and Einstein in KY there's not much left.

[Linny]

The Madison was bumped up by Ventura. I admit that I tend to think that the Committee just sits and pants and waits for the chance to upgrade anything Keeneland runs. When the Shadwell Mile and the Maker's Mark mile were upgraded and the Oak Tree Mile not, that was it for me. The Oak Tree had sent out about 4 straight BC Mile winners and several others that ran well.

BTW, IMO, neither the Clark or the Cigar is all that great. Good races, possibly nice betting events (I haven't 'capped them yet obviously, using likely starters in NY) but if they cancelled the Remsen, I'd skip my trip to the Big A on Sat.