mccain's vp

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah the poor American worker. Like the ones that are driving American automakers out of business because of unskilled labor making $100 an hour and retiring at 50? American companies are to blame for the plight of the poor american worker forced to use their credit cards to buy flat screen tv's. The ones who drive $50000 leased cars and were victims of the awful mortgage men who tricked them into believing they too could live in a $400k house on $38000 a year. What exactly is the % of American companies that have foreign operations?

Your solution is to elect Obama to tax the heck out of the rich to keep up with that out of control govt spending?

Real world is living within your means and stop blaming the someone else for all your problems when those means are exceeded.

Why do you stick to this worn out elitist myth that supply side economics actually works? Check out the relationship between production and wages from 1980 until today and you tell me that it has been fair to the working class. Inflation adjusted wages have barely moved in the last 30 years while the price of everything has gone up significantly. During the same period of time, check out the rate in which CEO wages have risen. Bottom line? American production has increased but nothing has "trickled down".

So you bring up the cliche of the overextended middle class begging for handouts and living beyond their means while not addressing how it got to be this way and why the trend has been exasperated over the last thirty years. Bring out FACTS not cliches.

If you want to bring up Obama, the FACT is that tax wise, 95% of the population will benefit from his plan.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Why do you stick to this worn out elitist myth that supply side economics actually works? Check out the relationship between production and wages from 1980 until today and you tell me that it has been fair to the working class. Inflation adjusted wages have barely moved in the last 30 years while the price of everything has gone up significantly. During the same period of time, check out the rate in which CEO wages have risen. Bottom line? American production has increased but nothing has "trickled down".

So you bring up the cliche of the overextended middle class begging for handouts and living beyond their means while not addressing how it got to be this way and why the trend has been exasperated over the last thirty years. Bring out FACTS not cliches.

If you want to bring up Obama, the FACT is that tax wise, 95% of the population will benefit from his plan.

i know i'm exasperated.

and obamas plan is to continue bushes tax cuts, essentially keep the whole tax scheme we've had in place, so i don't know what plan he's got you think is going to change things. of course once some of those tax cuts expire, he's probably going to jack them up to pay for all those new programs he's tossing out there like cheap candy to a baby. not sure how tax increases and new social programs that the middle class has to pay for won't exacerbate the whole less money from your pay check problem.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i know i'm exasperated.

and obamas plan is to continue bushes tax cuts, essentially keep the whole tax scheme we've had in place, so i don't know what plan he's got you think is going to change things. of course once some of those tax cuts expire, he's probably going to jack them up to pay for all those new programs he's tossing out there like cheap candy to a baby. not sure how tax increases and new social programs that the middle class has to pay for won't exacerbate the whole less money from your pay check problem.

You dont know his plan.

Factcheck.org

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You dont know his plan.

Factcheck.org

I was just looking at factcheck... Now Obama DID vote for a measure to take taxes back to the pre-2001 level. (which would have moved the 25% bracket back to 28%).

Now he's proposing tax cuts for those levels, which is a flip flop... but I'd rather him flip flop this way...

Here are both candidates plan...

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbe...cfm?DocID=1839

The BIGGEST differences in the two plans, IMO, is that McCain wants to lower corporate tax $ and Obama wants to raise corporate tax $$..

The question I have... is if we increase taxes on corporations will us as Employees have less opportunities to get raises and better pay because my company will have less $$?

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I was just looking at factcheck... Now Obama DID vote for a measure to take taxes back to the pre-2001 level. (which would have moved the 25% bracket back to 28%).

Now he's proposing tax cuts for those levels, which is a flip flop... but I'd rather him flip flop this way...

Here are both candidates plan...

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbe...cfm?DocID=1839

The BIGGEST differences in the two plans, IMO, is that McCain wants to lower corporate tax $ and Obama wants to higher corporate tax $$..

The question I have... is if we increase taxes on corporations will us as Employees have less opportunities to get raises and better pay because my company will have less $$?

good research! one other question

the corporate tax also hits the small business people...that are not typically thought of when you talk of Corporate Tax. How would this effect them and their employment plans and their ability to provide good salaries and raises?

[dalakhani]

[quote=Antitrust32]I was just looking at factcheck... Now Obama DID vote for a measure to take taxes back to the pre-2001 level. (which would have moved the 25% bracket back to 28%).

Now he's proposing tax cuts for those levels, which is a flip flop... but I'd rather him flip flop this way...

Here are both candidates plan...

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbe...cfm?DocID=1839

The BIGGEST differences in the two plans, IMO, is that McCain wants to lower corporate tax $ and Obama wants to raise corporate tax $$..

The question I have... is if we increase taxes on corporations will us as Employees have less opportunities to get raises and better pay because my company will have less $$?[/QUOTE]

Raises and better pay? Again, inflation adjusted, the only wages that have gone up in relationship to production over the last 30 years are CEO wages. Average wages adjusted for inflation have remained flat.

As far as far as tax policy, it is proven that Obama's plan IS NOT the same as McCain's. I will post the differences in a second.

[Mortimer]

You couldn't post the same in a second.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

You couldn't post the same in a second.

I wish someone would post the recipe for success...

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Raises and better pay? Again, inflation adjusted, the only wages that have gone up in relationship to production over the last 30 years are CEO wages. Average wages adjusted for inflation have remained flat.

As far as far as tax policy, it is proven that Obama's plan IS NOT the same as McCain's. I will post the differences in a second.

I never ever said they were the same plan... and I posted both of the two plans with the link. I said IMO the biggest difference was the Corporate taxes.

If I got a 6% raise this year.. and next year my corporate company will have less $$ because they are paying more taxes.. Will I only get a 3% raise next year?

If that is the case I'd much rather have the higher raise than the $502 I'll save with Obamas tax plan.

I really have no clue how it will effect that.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I never ever said they were the same plan... and I posted both of the two plans with the link. I said IMO the biggest difference was the Corporate taxes.

If I got a 6% raise this year.. and next year my corporate company will have less $$ because they are paying more taxes.. Will I only get a 3% raise next year?

If that is the case I'd much rather have the higher raise than the $502 I'll save with Obamas tax plan.

I really have no clue how it will effect that.

If Companies suddenly decided to pass along all of those corporate tax breaks to the middle class (as supply side/trickle down econ suggests) statistics say that would be a big departure from what has happened since 1980. Do you really think that is going to happen? You seem like an intelligent person. Why would you believe this?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You dont know his plan.

Factcheck.org

i know i read that during an interview just the other day that he said he was keeping bushes tax cuts. i don't need to go to factcheck, unless you're suggesting barack doesn't know what he's saying?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i know i read that during an interview just the other day that he said he was keeping bushes tax cuts. i don't need to go to factcheck, unless you're suggesting barack doesn't know what he's saying?

I think the incorrect part was about the middle class having to pay for new social programs.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I think the incorrect part was about the middle class having to pay for new social programs.

who will pay if not the middle class? don't we pay the lions' share of most taxes as it is? the poor don't. hell, i know a gal who doesn't pay a penny in federal income tax because she's single with a couple kids. but come spring, she gets a huge 'rebate' check from the govt-earned income tax credit. yeah, we pay for that. i just want to know how you can get federal tax dollars returned that you never sent in. wish i knew that trick.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

who will pay if not the middle class? don't we pay the lions' share of most taxes as it is? the poor don't. hell, i know a gal who doesn't pay a penny in federal income tax because she's single with a couple kids. but come spring, she gets a huge 'rebate' check from the govt-earned income tax credit. yeah, we pay for that. i just want to know how you can get federal tax dollars returned that you never sent in. wish i knew that trick.

OBAMA has made it pretty clear who is gunna pay more for it(the ones who can most afford to do so.) No, the middle class doesn't pay the lion's share(because they don't make the lion's share of the money.) I don't think you realize just how rich the top level is.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i know i read that during an interview just the other day that he said he was keeping bushes tax cuts. i don't need to go to factcheck, unless you're suggesting barack doesn't know what he's saying?

He is keeping tax cuts for the middle class but on top of that adding tax credits for families. The big difference is that he is rolling them back for families making over 250k and some for corporations. He also plans to increase Capital gains taxes and keep AMT in place.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

He is keeping tax cuts for the middle class but on top of that adding tax credits for families. The big difference is that he is rolling them back for families making over 250k and some for corporations. He also plans to increase Capital gains taxes and keep AMT in place.

And this is a good plan? Families making over 250k are now considered rich? Capital gains taxes are good? The AMT is good? And you call yourself a capitalist? I'm sure you thought the John Brunetti Hialeah takeout "plan" was a good one too.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And this is a good plan? Families making over 250k are now considered rich? Capital gains taxes are good? The AMT is good? And you call yourself a capitalist? I'm sure you thought the John Brunetti Hialeah takeout "plan" was a good one too.

AMT is GOOD. I can tell you from experience that if not for AMT my effective tax rate would be about _____. And the rich can say the same thing.

Capital gains taxes arent good but necessary.

Do you question Warren Buffet's capitalist nature? He is in favor of these tax policies.

Families making over 250k arent rich but have you done the math on how much added burden a 250k family would have to take on?