Which horses were truly great?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I know, I just think if Exterminator truly belonged in that elite class he would have won more than 6 in a row.

why? you include nashua, he never won more than 6 in a row.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

why? you include nashua, he never won more than 6 in a row.

But Nashua won more than 2/3 of his races. Had Exterminator had a nice run in his 50 wins and then racked up a bunch of losses late in his career then he'd have a better excuse for his 50 losses. But he didn't.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

But Nashua won more than 2/3 of his races. Had Exterminator had a nice run in his 50 wins and then racked up a bunch of losses late in his career then he'd have a better excuse for his 50 losses. But he didn't.

but he won 50 races. most horses don't even start in 50 races. most horses today don't have 50 starts between themselves, their sire and their dam.

anyway, i think exterminator was a heck of a horse.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but he won 50 races. most horses don't even start in 50 races. most horses today don't have 50 starts between themselves, their sire and their dam.

anyway, i think exterminator was a heck of a horse.

There is no doubt of that, just like Scottie Pippen was a heck of a basketball player. But neither are at that elite level.

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There is no doubt of that, just like Scottie Pippen was a heck of a basketball player. But neither are at that elite level.

not to change the subject, but Chuck Daly said Pippen was the 2nd best player on the 1992 Dream Team... granted Bird and Magic were past their "prime" but that's still a pretty strong statement.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by smuthg

not to change the subject, but Chuck Daly said Pippen was the 2nd best player on the 1992 Dream Team... granted Bird and Magic were past their "prime" but that's still a pretty strong statement.

i live 8 miles outside of hamburg, pippens hometown. he warmed the bench in high school, definitely wasn't precocious!

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

Add Northern Dancer. North American by way of Canada. His 14-2-2 record in 18 lifetime starts is strong enough, but the fact that he is the undisputed top breeder of all time warrants a place on the all time greats list. JMO

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

But Nashua won more than 2/3 of his races. Had Exterminator had a nice run in his 50 wins and then racked up a bunch of losses late in his career then he'd have a better excuse for his 50 losses. But he didn't.

Exterminator ran until he was 10, long past his best years. Without modern analgesics, his old joints couldn't move him as fast as they had and his form nosedived. (This is why I still can't put John Henry in the same category as Exterminator, Kelso and Native Diver - he got bute for his elderly aches and pains.)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

She wasn't even the best 3yo filly of her year. Bold n' Determined beat her the only time they met and won over their elders, which GR didn't do. Look at her record.
1977 BOLD 'N DETERMINED,B,f,Bold And Brave 3 20 16 2 0 949,599
At 2 Won Oak Leaf S. -G2 (100,000)
At 3 Won Fantasy S. -G1 (150,000), Spinster S. -G1 (150,000), Coaching
Club American Oaks -G1 (125,000), Santa Susana S. -G1 (100,000),
Kentucky Oaks -G1 (100,000), Acorn S. -G1 (75,000), Maskette S. -G2 (75,000), Pasadena S. (50,000), 2nd Mother Goose S. -G1 (100,000)
At 4 Won Apple Blossom H. -G2 (200,000), Bewitch S. (50,000), 2nd La Brea

genuine risk beat the older misty gallore in the ruffian.

as for the above, in which of those races BnD beat males? and finish second and third three other times vs males? that was four grade one, classic races that risk took part in, with a third, a first in the derby, and then second in the other two legs.


bold n determined only won by a nose when she beat risk-she passed risk in the stretch, and was ahead by about half a length when risk started coming back at her, only to run out of stretch-and risk was also making her first start off a 13 week layoff.

[King Glorious]

I won't get into who I think was great or who wasn't. I will just say this.......if there is a debate to be had over a horse, he probably doesn't belong on that list. If I say Spectacular Bid, he's agreed upon by 99%. If I say Secretariat, he's agreed upon by 99%. The no debate horses are the only ones that belong on the list. The ones that you have to put their records out there and state their cases, probably not.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I won't get into who I think was great or who wasn't. I will just say this.......if there is a debate to be had over a horse, he probably doesn't belong on that list. If I say Spectacular Bid, he's agreed upon by 99%. If I say Secretariat, he's agreed upon by 99%. The no debate horses are the only ones that belong on the list. The ones that you have to put their records out there and state their cases, probably not.

i only went into more detail to correct pedigree anns assertion that genuine risk didn't face and defeat older horses. i don't know what more genuine risk could have done, she did everything that is usually asked of a filly to define greatness.

[westcoastinvader]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

But Nashua won more than 2/3 of his races. Had Exterminator had a nice run in his 50 wins and then racked up a bunch of losses late in his career then he'd have a better excuse for his 50 losses. But he didn't.

And as I recall, Nashua was the all time leading $$ winner for a great number of years.

I think from retirement, until Spectacular Bid passed him.

If my memory is correct, I think that's a metric that should put Nashua in the group, for certain.

And Spectacular Bid is certainly on my list with 26 wins, 2 places and a show in 30 starts.