Assault

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by freddymo

He did a great job the horse made a ton of money and was syndicated.. When you succeed how can you question the methodology?

I think you might have somehow misunderstood my post.
I completely agree that he did a great job with Afleet Alex. My question for Chuck was simply whether or not he thought that type of training could be used effectively with a lot of horses, or if it was just Ritchey finding something that would work for Afleet Alex specifically, but might not work for very many others.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I think you might have somehow misunderstood my post.
I completely agree that he did a great job with Afleet Alex. My question for Chuck was simply whether or not he thought that type of training could be used effectively with a lot of horses, or if it was just Ritchey finding something that would work for Afleet Alex specifically, but might not work for very many others.

The horse made 12 starts 4 grade 1 wins 2 g2 wins and very good derby effort..

Whatever Ritchey did, However Ritchey did it is was certainly in the horses best interest. Half of AA wins are G1 and G2 race? HELLO that is pretty fn good

Horses aren't robots what works for one may or may not work for another..

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The horse made 12 starts 4 grade 1 wins 2 g2 wins and very good derby effort..

Whatever Ritchey did, However Ritchey did it is was certainly in the horses best interest. Half of AA wins are G1 and G2 race? HELLO that is pretty fn good

Horses aren't robots what works for one may or may not work for another..

Track record in the Sanford too. Wasn't Affirmed the last horse to win the Sanford and the Belmont?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The horse made 12 starts 4 grade 1 wins 2 g2 wins and very good derby effort..

Whatever Ritchey did, However Ritchey did it is was certainly in the horses best interest. Half of AA wins are G1 and G2 race? HELLO that is pretty fn good

Horses aren't robots what works for one may or may not work for another..

The horse never raced past June of his 3 year old year and this is good? I find it hilarious that Afleet Alex is the best example of a sucessful "tough" training program. The horse broke down. He did not have a long career. What exactly am I missing here? We arent talking about his sucess we are talking about the durability of the modern day horse and horses that make 5 or 6 starts at 3 and break down are poor examples, arent they?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The horse never raced past June of his 3 year old year and this is good? I find it hilarious that Afleet Alex is the best example of a sucessful "tough" training program. The horse broke down. He did not have a long career. What exactly am I missing here? We arent talking about his sucess we are talking about the durability of the modern day horse and horses that make 5 or 6 starts at 3 and break down are poor examples, arent they?

Your missing 25 million dollars other then that you are spot on. The horse was retired because to stop with him for 6 months was fiscally impossible. The horse could have made it back to the races and most likely would have been ok. You never know if they come 100% back but it was certainly possible. BUT 150 mares where in line on the farm. AND the trainer must be applauded and rewarded for his outstanding efforts. You win 6 graded stakes and get a horse syndicated for huge money and I wonder if you will be happy and feel good about the job. i know one person who will be thrilled...Your Bank Manager

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Your missing 25 million dollars other then that you are spot on. The horse was retired because to stop with him for 6 months was fiscally impossible. The horse could have made it back to the races and most likely would have been ok. You never know if they come 100% back but it was certainly possible. BUT 150 mares where in line on the farm. AND the trainer must be applauded and rewarded for his outstanding efforts. You win 6 graded stakes and get a horse syndicated for huge money and I wonder if you will be happy and feel good about the job. i know one person who will be thrilled...Your Bank Manager

All that is fine but we are talking about durability and training methods and AA is not a good example because we have no idea what he would have become afterwards. he may have become the next Funny Cide...

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

All that is fine but we are talking about durability and training methods and AA is not a good example because we have no idea what he would have become afterwards. he may have become the next Funny Cide...

I thought Phalaris brought up some really good points in this thread last year:

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...=year+training

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

All that is fine but we are talking about durability and training methods and AA is not a good example because we have no idea what he would have become afterwards. he may have become the next Funny Cide...

You mean Barclay Tagg's pony in the morning?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

All that is fine but we are talking about durability and training methods and AA is not a good example because we have no idea what he would have become afterwards. he may have become the next Funny Cide...

Up until the colt got injured the regiment was succeeding. I guess you could argue that the training method could have been the reason he got injured. I would suggest that would be impossible to prove either way. The horse made 12 starts before halfway thru his 3 year old year. 6 graded wins and the TC campaign. By today's standard he was a war horse.
Now throw in the untimely injury and the likilihood that he would not have made mor then 3 more starts and I think he was fairly durable.

As far as Concolours grand foals I would assume they have to be the old TB stock as surely the old TB stock doesn't give way in one generation.

[King Glorious]

Because it's impossible to prove either way, I think that's the exact reason using him as an example of one that succeeded under "old school" methods is a bad example.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by freddymo

As far as Concolours grand foals I would assume they have to be the old TB stock as surely the old TB stock doesn't give way in one generation.

I'm not so sure about that. One of her female offspring is by Grindstone.
Should we really expect that one to be a bastion of soundness?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Up until the colt got injured the regiment was succeeding. I guess you could argue that the training method could have been the reason he got injured. I would suggest that would be impossible to prove either way. The horse made 12 starts before halfway thru his 3 year old year. 6 graded wins and the TC campaign. By today's standard he was a war horse.
Now throw in the untimely injury and the likilihood that he would not have made mor then 3 more starts and I think he was fairly durable.

As far as Concolours grand foals I would assume they have to be the old TB stock as surely the old TB stock doesn't give way in one generation.

Up until they get injured every type of training works depending on the horse. I thought we were talking about the theory that harder training prevented injuries like this? Of course that theory is wrong but at least it gives us fodder to talk about other than mud at Saratoga tomorrow.