great takeout article

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

of course they dont, many of them are losing their ass. I play plenty of poker online, a deposit seems to last forever, its great entertainment for nada. I go on a losing run at the horses and yikes.

yeah but most people lose at Poker too and very few ever make a real score like you can at horse racing.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

yeah but most people lose at Poker too and very few ever make a real score like you can at horse racing.

what does that have to do with the "churn" that lower takeout produces?

[cmorioles]

I am not placing the blame at horsemen's feet. Horsemen and the tracks are both to blame.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I am not placing the blame at horsemen's feet. Horsemen and the tracks are both to blame.

no doubt, the last innovative idea a track had was the exacta.

[cmorioles]

Tracks have at least, albeit on rare occasions, asked for takeout reductions. Horsemen constantly ask for takeout increases.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Tracks have at least, albeit on rare occasions, asked for takeout reductions. Horsemen constantly ask for takeout increases.

That is simply not true.

The influx of money comes from two sources, the owners and the fan.
In the long run, if these two entities are not satisified, its not gonna work.
Nothing goes if owners and fans dont put money in seems to me.

So who is going away to other forms of entertainment (with the chance for some money-the minority), the fans, owners, or both?

Seems to me its the fans.

I am not a businessman, but it seems that some entities that put on the entertainment do not know or care where the money comes from. Especially considering some of the horror stories I have read about treatment at tracks and online. And then the awful scam ridden treatment of owners in so many phases. Seems that the entertainers think the addicted gambler is the major player, and an endless source of money and the breeders, some horsemen, treat the owners as some host like a frkkn parasite.

Heck, maybe this sport can exist in a minor form with just owners supplying capital. Maybe the owners continue to foster the crazy buy to breed market, and the breeders just continue to supply this dead end. Maybe the situation as it exists is fun for the owners, this buy to breed is their entertainment.

And it seems incredible that with the advent of the internet things have actually become worse. I naively thought this would allow horseracing to absolutely blossom...

Dead wrong I was.

It is complex. But the driving force is the owner/fan combo. No offshore sites, data stores, HRTV, and right on down the line exist without the funds supplied by owners and fans.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That is simply not true.

Please direct to one time where horsemen asked for takeout reductions. If I'm wrong, I'll apologize, but I can't think of it ever happening. I might even settle for something showing horsemen fought against an increase.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

what does that have to do with the "churn" that lower takeout produces?

Your comparison of Poker betting and horse betting. Your not able to keep your money longer in poker strictly because of the lower take but because of the different nature of the bets.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Your comparison of Poker betting and horse betting. Your not able to keep your money longer in poker strictly because of the lower take but because of the different nature of the bets.

So entertainment dollar here.

I have a 1000 dollars, I lose it in a aweek at the horses, where I lose it over 6 months in poker, but I should be more inclined to entertain myself for the week because of the big score?

I just dont think that the wagering model is working with higher takeouts in horse racing, what do you think?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

So entertainment dollar here.

I have a 1000 dollars, I lose it in a aweek at the horses, where I lose it over 6 months in poker, but I should be more inclined to entertain myself for the week because of the big score?

I just dont think that the wagering model is working with higher takeouts in horse racing, what do you think?

Your logic is unusual. If you want to stretch your "entertainment" dollar, rent movies. As for the gambling dollar, yeah horse racing is a much better bet than poker despite the takeout. Because you lose slower at Poker it is a better bet? What difference does it make if you are assuming a loss anyway. The thing is that there is virtually no way that you can make a big score at Poker. You can do that on pretty much any card at a semi major track pretty much everyday of the week. I agree that takeouts are too high in most cases but unlike poker there are a lot of other mouths to feed from the horseracing dollar and the comparison is kind of an apples and oranges thing.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I would be in complete agreement with every word Cannon typed...

But Freddy says he makes good money playing poker. So Poker has to be the much easier game to win at.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I would be in complete agreement with every word Cannon typed...

But Freddy says he makes good money playing poker. So Poker has to be the much easier game to win at.

People who make money playing poker never tell...

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Your logic is unusual. If you want to stretch your "entertainment" dollar, rent movies. As for the gambling dollar, yeah horse racing is a much better bet than poker despite the takeout. Because you lose slower at Poker it is a better bet? What difference does it make if you are assuming a loss anyway. The thing is that there is virtually no way that you can make a big score at Poker. You can do that on pretty much any card at a semi major track pretty much everyday of the week. I agree that takeouts are too high in most cases but unlike poker there are a lot of other mouths to feed from the horseracing dollar and the comparison is kind of an apples and oranges thing.

which is why (for me) it is actually easier to make money playing poker than the horses.

i can play online where the rake is minimal because there's no brick and mortar, dealer salary, floor manager salary, shift supervisor salary, floor runner, or the expectation to tip any of them.

i can choose my table and assessing the talent of my opponents is easy with the tracking websites.

i can't choose to play against the worst horseplayers. i get the whole bucket. and i'm expected to pay the groom, hotwalker, jock, trainer, track operator, state licensing agency, and god knows who else off the rake.

all i have to do is put up with endless conspiracy theories as to why online poker is fixed by the losers. that and pay 5% on ring games and 10% on tournament entries. and there are ways to get rakeback.

you have to have a passion to crack horseracing. anyone with patience, minimal talant, and a 3 digit iq can win at poker.