Catty Madeline

[blackthroatedwind]

The blanket finish is relevent in that a bumping incident could well have caused the victim to have lost a position. I can understand the argument against yesterday's no-call, even though I agree with the steward's decision in this case, but not the one Friday. I think taking Les Antiques down would have been a VERY bad call and really think they got that one right. The Mother Goose? Debatable for sure.

Honestly, and I am not trying to demean your arguments, I guess overall I just care less than most people. That doesn't make me right, or my position the right one, I just think people tend to overemphasize steward's decisions of all kinds while ignoring far more relevent and important issues. I don't think you do this....but most do.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think taking Les Antiques down would have been a VERY bad call and really think they got that one right. The Mother Goose? Debatable for sure.

You then condone a horse going from the 5 or 6 path and SQUEEZING a horse that's on the rail? So much so, that the horse repeatedly HITS the rail as a result. That race was a joke. Castellano is repeatedly allowed to get away with **** like this.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The blanket finish is relevent in that a bumping incident could well have caused the victim to have lost a position. I can understand the argument against yesterday's no-call, even though I agree with the steward's decision in this case, but not the one Friday. I think taking Les Antiques down would have been a VERY bad call and really think they got that one right. The Mother Goose? Debatable for sure.

Honestly, and I am not trying to demean your arguments, I guess overall I just care less than most people. That doesn't make me right, or my position the right one, I just think people tend to overemphasize steward's decisions of all kinds while ignoring far more relevent and important issues. I don't think you do this....but most do.

As a practical matter, there are periods when focus comes to certain aspects of the sport. Over the years, I have viewed the stewards in NY as making more appropriate decisions than their counterparts elsewhere (particularly in FL and KY, where I have seen what I thought to be phantom fouls result in takedowns). That's why the events of the past 10 days have been so baffling.

As a horseplayer, I think that, like anything, the "good calls" and "bad calls" tend to even out. I got taken down from the pic-6 with Admiral Bird on Friday, but was the beneficiary for a fairly comparable amount of money when Raw Silk was (wrongly, IMO) DQ'd at Aqueduct last fall. The problem is that, at a time when racing has enough problems to worry about, we really need consistent adjudication of these matters, for inconsistency breeds questions of integrity and the like (which I am not raising).

You may know the answer to this question which a friend and me were discussing yesterday. With the holiday period, and the high-pressure Saratoga meet around the corner, were any of the "regular" stewards on vacation, with alternate stewards sitting in for them this past week? I recall that, when DRF used to publish the charts in the Form on a daily basis, the identity of the stewards was published as part of an introductory section before the chart for the first race, along with such information as weather, how long the meet ran, etc. This information is not currently part of any charts of which I am aware. At least if this was published, it might create better accountability, or at least a perception of it. (It's like the equivalent in basketball, which I officiate, where some referees call a "tighter" whistle than others - and the players and coaches know it. Human nature being what it is, I assume the stewards, as a collection of persons, are probably the same.)

[blackthroatedwind]

Nobody ever said anything about any of the regular stewards being on vacation but I guess it's possible.

[freddymo]

Everybody wants decisions to be uniformed but the problem lies in its context.. This thread is composed of 5 or 6 well informed knowledgible racing minds accurately and cogently making sensible cases for DQ's and Non calls.. All of you folks have seen ten of thousands of races and are well versed yet .. The Fat Man BTW DrugS and thebby etc all differ in there adjudication.. Think about it we have been discussing this for days and with unlimited replay time.. These folks need to make a decision and move on in 5 minutes TOPS.. My point is simple no matter how hard you try to get stewards to be accountable and prefect they just cant because so much of these decisions are subjective.. I guess sometimes it will work out for you and sometimes you are going to get hurt eitherway as long as the folks doing the deciding are competitent I guess you have to let it go when it works against you and cheer when it works in your favor..

Unless The Fat Man is available to judge every objection and inquiry??lol

[the_fat_man]

Four possible outcomes in a given race:

1) right horse and wins

2) right horse but loses --stewards, bad trip, etc.

3) wrong horse and loses

4) wrong horse BUT wins --stewards, good trip, etc.


However, increased 'interest' in the decisions of the stewards can only help in the long run as it makes the process a bit more public.

[Gander]

Okay. I bet Ms Holden and needed her for a huge score this day. While she didnt deserve to win the race as she had every chance and just wasnt good enough, I still think Levine's horse should have come down based on 3 prior takedowns within 2 week's of this race, a la Admiral Bird being the most noteworthy.

Ms Holden runs back tomorrow at Saratoga in the last race. The race is scheduled for turf but will probably come off. I still think she may run.

Thoughts on betting her back?

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

Okay. I bet Ms Holden and needed her for a huge score this day. While she didnt deserve to win the race as she had every chance and just wasnt good enough, I still think Levine's horse should have come down based on 3 prior takedowns within 2 week's of this race, a la Admiral Bird being the most noteworthy.

Ms Holden runs back tomorrow at Saratoga in the last race. The race is scheduled for turf but will probably come off. I still think she may run.

Thoughts on betting her back?

Tim, I'm just not sure what kinda price she will be. Sure to take some action and go off a little lower than her 5-1ML. I like Intoxicatingbeauty coming out of that race. Appears to be a couple with some speed in there and it should set up well for her.

Anyways...it's all probably moot, as I can't imagine they would be back on the turf tomorrow.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by GPK

Tim, I'm just not sure what kinda price she will be. Sure to take some action and go off a little lower than her 5-1ML. I like Intoxicatingbeauty coming out of that race. Appears to be a couple with some speed in there and it should set up well for her.

Anyways...it's all probably moot, as I can't imagine they would be back on the turf tomorrow.

Kev,
Like Hockey said, they already took this race off. The only race on is the wonderful Lake George! I think I will wait until the Diana.

Ms Holden still may run but I dont want her on the dirt. I think Sashay Renee wires this field at a short price.

Tomorrow is going to be really great. I'm going to take a pass on today's races and enjoy the great outdoors and some sun (finally!).

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Gander

Okay. I bet Ms Holden and needed her for a huge score this day. While she didnt deserve to win the race as she had every chance and just wasnt good enough, I still think Levine's horse should have come down based on 3 prior takedowns within 2 week's of this race, a la Admiral Bird being the most noteworthy.

Ms Holden runs back tomorrow at Saratoga in the last race. The race is scheduled for turf but will probably come off. I still think she may run.

Thoughts on betting her back?

It's already off - only race that's staying on is the feature.