The Tin Man

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Slow first half...man did he have a choppy stride on the backstretch.
Stole the show when asked.
Good for him. Not a pretty run...but effective.

How could you see his stride going down the backstretch? I couldn't see his stride going down the backstretch but I could see it when they passed the stands the first time and I could see it when he came down the stetch the final time. He was moving great. I highly doubt that he wasn't moving well going down the backstretch.

He doesn't have a really strong stride but he has a great way of moving. There is nothing choppy about his stride.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

How could you see his stride going down the backstretch? I couldn't see his stride going down the backstretch but I could see it when they passed the stands the first time and I could see it when he came down the stetch the final time. He was moving great. I highly doubt that he wasn't moving well going down the backstretch.

He doesn't have a really strong stride but he has a great way of moving. There is nothing choppy about his stride.

Well I have to give a lot of credit to the horse and connections for winning this race. I think he wasn't given enough credit by Frankel/Prado and Pletcher/Velazquez before the race. Edgar was quite content to sit open lengths off him in that crawling time and didn't even get after his mount on the turn, he thought he had it made. They ran the last 1/4 in 22:3 so you could forget about anyone closing into that pace and winning. I still don't know if Cacique is better than English Channel or vice versa. English was rank early and Johnny was determined to wrangle him back. He ran wide and finished evenly. Guess we get yet another rematch of those two in the Turf Classic.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Well I have to give a lot of credit to the horse and connections for winning this race. I think he wasn't given enough credit by Frankel/Prado and Pletcher/Velazquez before the race. Edgar was quite content to sit open lengths off him in that crawling time and didn't even get after his mount on the turn, he thought he had it made. They ran the last 1/4 in 22:3 so you could forget about anyone closing into that pace and winning. I still don't know if Cacique is better than English Channel or vice versa. English was rank early and Johnny was determined to wrangle him back. He ran wide and finished evenly. Guess we get yet another rematch of those two in the Turf Classic.

Not only was nobody going to catch him, nobody was even going to gain on him. He's the only horse in there that could run his last quarter in :22 3/5 on that turf course. That's why he was actually drawing away.

This is exactly why I like the Tin Man types. You rest on your arse (50 sec at 4 f????) and you get beat. He will not allow what appears to be a huge rush at the end if let loose on soft fractions.

These are not European fairways, these are American courses with turns. And some of the Euros experience a great deal of difficulty with turns as it takes a tremendous amount of energy out of a horse because a horse ACCELERATES (a change in speed, direction or both) on turns... yes thats right, it requires more energy to constantly change directions on turns than it takes running straight ahead. I think this is vastly overlooked. ANd I think it is why some of Europes best do not come here. They are at a big disadvantage. Yes they go up and they go down but the majority of those courses are very gentle turns. ON some US turf courses up to 40% of the time spent racing is turning on a very small effective radius compared to Euro courses... and that is very, very hard on a horse.

The Euros that come over here and whup our butts should be given the highest reguard as they really have shown incredible athletic ability winning on such diff type courses. Also turning in a diff. direction, which has been discussed many times.

[Danzig]

i found it interesting the comment about euro success in the million...7 of 23 winners before today. so now it means 7 of 24...less than a third. is that what people consider euro domination?

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i found it interesting the comment about euro success in the million...7 of 23 winners before today. so now it means 7 of 24...less than a third. is that what people consider euro domination?

True Z. But how much of the Million field do they make up? Today there where a good number of Euros. I guess because they sent the 2nd and third teams. I do not have the numbers. I would be interested to know sense the inception of the Million what % of the runners have been Euro. Also, it is only a million dollars. That used to be a big deal, but not as much anymore. They can stay at home or concentrate a bigger Asian or Dubai purses.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pgardn

True Z. But how much of the Million field do they make up? Today there where a good number of Euros. I guess because they sent the 2nd and third teams. I do not have the numbers. I would be interested to know sense the inception of the Million what % of the runners have been Euro. Also, it is only a million dollars. That used to be a big deal, but not as much anymore. They can stay at home or concentrate a bigger Asian or Dubai purses.

like i've said before here and elsewhere (and was gratified to hear it from one of the announcers today) that many of the euros who come over are looking for a firm turf course(they may not be bad or lesser, just can't find their ground), one that isn't often found in their own backyard. or maybe some are looking to beat up on the 'lesser' u.s. horses. take sulamani for instance a few years ago. it's not his best distance, but the connections felt he was so superior to our horses that he'd win anyway. whoops! yeah, the million has slipped in recent years regarding purse money, but it's still a good stepping stone for euros looking to make a mark here, or prep for the bc race (why not ship now and get them a couple u.s. races under their belt, and get used to the lasix they grab as soon as they clear customs, so much for euro snobbery about our drugged horses). also, by this time of year, they must be pretty clear what horses over there suit the racing there, and which don't. some come here and find glory, some don't. but i don't think the gap between our turfers and theirs is so great as what was once felt...seems there is a greater appreciation here these days for turf horses, and maybe not as many are being snapped up at auction to go overseas, they're staying here now.