Jeremy Rose

[ELA]

It is very easy to say this was intentional. Apparently, and I might be wrong, he did not hit her after the wire. That to me is one crucial point. If it was after the wire, it's an easy call. If it wasn't -- then there will be those who feel it was intentional and he is lying, and there will be those who feel it wasn't intentional. And so on.

I am not a jock. Maybe I am naive. My knee jerk reaction would be that a professional can control, and tell the difference between a swat at a shoulder and a swat at the face. I don't know.

Maybe the situation isn't as obvious as initially thought. Maybe it was.

Regardless, he should be punished. It's his responsibility to protect his mount's health, welfare and well being.

Eric

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by ELA

It is very easy to say this was intentional. Apparently, and I might be wrong, he did not hit her after the wire. That to me is one crucial point. If it was after the wire, it's an easy call. If it wasn't -- then there will be those who feel it was intentional and he is lying, and there will be those who feel it wasn't intentional. And so on.

I am not a jock. Maybe I am naive. My knee jerk reaction would be that a professional can control, and tell the difference between a swat at a shoulder and a swat at the face. I don't know.

Maybe the situation isn't as obvious as initially thought. Maybe it was.

Regardless, he should be punished. It's his responsibility to protect his mount's health, welfare and well being.

Eric

Well said.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Well said.

My knee jerk reaction, at first, was like everyone's. Now I feel I have to think it through more. So, I have horses at Delaware. My immediate question is what happens if Rose was in the room today, tomorrow -- and my trainer wanted to use him. What would I do? I am not embarrassed to say I just don't know yet. I want to think this through more. Whatever decision I would come to, would be after all thought and I would be definitive. I just don't know where that would be right now. I'd ask my partner, my trainer, I'd ask other jocks who I know very well, personally not just professionally. I think many of us arrive at some opinions with input, educated input, from others.

I don't know -- the kid (and I don't use that word disrespectfully) has been on horses for many years. How many times? 10,000? An accident? I don't know, I am starting to think that it's a tough "mistake" -- to make and for me to swallow. Shoulder? Face? I just don't know.

Eric

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by ELA

My knee jerk reaction, at first, was like everyone's. Now I feel I have to think it through more. So, I have horses at Delaware. My immediate question is what happens if Rose was in the room today, tomorrow -- and my trainer wanted to use him. What would I do? I am not embarrassed to say I just don't know yet. I want to think this through more. Whatever decision I would come to, would be after all thought and I would be definitive. I just don't know where that would be right now. I'd ask my partner, my trainer, I'd ask other jocks who I know very well, personally not just professionally. I think many of us arrive at some opinions with input, educated input, from others.

I don't know -- the kid (and I don't use that word disrespectfully) has been on horses for many years. How many times? 10,000? An accident? I don't know, I am starting to think that it's a tough "mistake" -- to make and for me to swallow. Shoulder? Face? I just don't know.

Eric

well when you see him .. blast him in the face and catch some eye socket..then say.. sorry..and walk away.........

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

well when you see him .. blast him in the face and catch some eye socket..then say.. sorry..and walk away.........

You're too easy, I say give him the same two fingers that Moe gave Curly and Shemp and let him know that there is more to come when he can start to see again.

[Indian Charlie]

Well said?

Well said if you are an OJ Simpson apologist.

How does one accidentally reposition the arm to where you hit the horse in the face, have the horse bolt five lanes over, and then accidentally hit the horse again, maybe even two more times, in the face??!

I'll tell you how.

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Personally, I LOVE where he says:

"As we were coming through the lane, I intended to hit her on the shoulder with my whip to keep her from continuing to lug in, and hold my position in 2nd."

It took them over 48 hours to come up with this?

A) In my many years of enjoying the sport, I have actually never seen a jockey who intended to hit a horse on the shoulder, nearly take out an eye. I'm not saying it never happened but I've never seen it in 32 years of watching.

B) After the initial "lugging in" the horse had actually straighted out for about 4-5 jumps before he whacked her, the first time.

C) When he hit her for the 2nd and 3rd time as they neared the wire, the 2nd place finisher had already passed them up with ease, so I'm not sure how he thought he was going to "hold...2nd".

The ONLY thing he has going in his favor is nobody REALLY knows if it was an accident or not except for him. In the court of public opinion, he has already been convicted. I am one of those who has done so. But I don't think at this point that matters to him or his lawyer. The only thing that matters is getting this behind them, with as little punishment as possible. They'll hope the rest will take care of itself over time.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Personally, I LOVE where he says:

"As we were coming through the lane, I intended to hit her on the shoulder with my whip to keep her from continuing to lug in, and hold my position in 2nd."

It took them over 48 hours to come up with this?

A) In my many years of enjoying the sport, I have actually never seen a jockey who intended to hit a horse on the shoulder, nearly take out an eye. I'm not saying it never happened but I've never seen it in 32 years of watching.

B) After the initial "lugging in" the horse had actually straighted out for about 4-5 jumps before he whacked her, the first time.

C) When he hit her for the 2nd and 3rd time as they neared the wire, the 2nd place finisher had already passed them up with ease, so I'm not sure how he thought he was going to "hold...2nd".

The ONLY thing he has going in his favor is nobody REALLY knows if it was an accident or not except for him. In the court of public opinion, he has already been convicted. I am one of those who has done so. But I don't think at this point that matters to him or his lawyer. The only thing that matters is getting this behind them, with as little punishment as possible. They'll hope the rest will take care of itself over time.

I found it interesting he decided to use a press release instead of facing the press, if you were truly innocent wouldn't you go out screaming and kicking your innocence? It's a classic case of deny, deny, and deny and in time hopefully they will forget. Frankly I expected more from him. To me this was almost an admission of guilt.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

I found it interesting he decided to use a press release instead of facing the press, if you were truly innocent wouldn't you go out screaming and kicking your innocence? It's a classic case of deny, deny, and deny and in time hopefully they will forget. Frankly I expected more from him. To me this was almost an admission of guilt.

if he was truly innocent he wouldn't be in this spot to begin with.

[Kasept]

Did anyone just hear Maggie Wolfendale call in to ATR?

[slotdirt]

I missed it, Kasept. What did she say?

[Theatrical]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Did anyone just hear Maggie Wolfendale call in to ATR?

She has a couple of posts on thoroughbred champions.

[Bobby Fischer]

Maybe Rose is just wildly inaccurate with the whip?
Does he have a lot swings-and-misses when attempting to whip on a horse's ass?


yea right

stay in shape for 6 months JR, come back better than ever, and don't accept any "free money" while out.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Maybe Rose is just wildly inaccurate with the whip?
Does he have a lot swings-and-misses when attempting to whip on a horse's ass?


yea right

stay in shape for 6 months JR, come back better than ever, and don't accept any "free money" while out.

his poor girlfriend....

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Did anyone just hear Maggie Wolfendale call in to ATR?

Steve, I am in the middle of listening to yesterday's show. I am quite surprised by what is being said by your guests. Seth Morrow really didn't see the incident? I'm not saying that he's not being honest, but I find it hard to believe that ANYONE with ties remotely close to what he has to the sport hasn't seen the footage. Maggie Wolfendale saying that Rose didn't seem agitated when he returned with the mare tells me nothing. He had a few minutes during the gallop out and return before the unsaddling to realize what he had done. I'm not in his head, but hasn't everyone done something and IMMEDIATELY realized they F'ed UP? 3 minutes is plenty of time to compose yourself and come up with a STORY. And Gary West was the most shocking of all. He makes it seem like the harsh reaction to the incident is by people who don't really get it. People who are just out to ban the whip or are still feeling the sting from the Eight Belles situation. But on this board, we have owners, trainers, writers, professional handicappers, gamblers and die hard fans. With the exception of maybe slodirt, I'm pretty sure everyone else commenting here feels that it was done maliciously. And Gary West was "shocked at the ruling" and he sees "no indication that he was using his whip beligerantly or maliciously" and think this is an "over reaction". Seriously?

Maybe you comment on the show later on, as I said I am just listening Gary West now.

[slotdirt]

Don't forget jcs.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by NoLuvForPletch

Steve, I am in the middle of listening to yesterday's show. I am quite surprised by what is being said by your guests. Seth Morrow really didn't see the incident? I'm not saying that he's not being honest, but I find it hard to believe that ANYONE with ties remotely close to what he has to the sport hasn't seen the footage. Maggie Wolfendale saying that Rose didn't seem agitated when he returned with the mare tells me nothing. He had a few minutes during the gallop out and return before the unsaddling to realize what he had done. I'm not in his head, but hasn't everyone done something and IMMEDIATELY realized they F'ed UP? 3 minutes is plenty of time to compose yourself and come up with a STORY. And Gary West was the most shocking of all. He makes it seem like the harsh reaction to the incident is by people who don't really get it. People who are just out to ban the whip or are still feeling the sting from the Eight Belles situation. But on this board, we have owners, trainers, writers, professional handicappers, gamblers and die hard fans. With the exception of maybe slodirt, I'm pretty sure everyone else commenting here feels that it was done maliciously. And Gary West was "shocked at the ruling" and he sees "no indication that he was using his whip beligerantly or maliciously" and think this is an "over reaction". Seriously?

Maybe you comment on the show later on, as I said I am just listening Gary West now.

Not sure what to make of the whole thing now. I think it's interesting that Howard Wolfendale, who prefers to NOT deal with ANY press, seems pretty OK with Rose's version of things and is being supportive of him. Says a lot no matter what anyone says. Wolfendale is an unusual guy.

Maggie said Rose immediately said to her and her mother after the race that he thought he caught the mare across face, so it isn't like he was trying to hide anything about what happened. I'm anxious to hear what Tony Black says today at 6pm as he'll explain if it is even possible to inadvertantly hit a horse across the face while stick handling.

Sure looks like he was taking her to the woodshed, but it's hard to be sure given our collective lack of experience as to where the riders sit....

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Not sure what to make of the whole thing now. I think it's interesting that Howard Wolfendale, who prefers to NOT deal with ANY press, seems pretty OK with Rose's version of things and is being supportive of him. Says a lot no matter what anyone says. Wolfendale is an unusual guy.

Maggie said Rose immediately said to her and her mother after the race that he thought he caught the mare across face, so it isn't like he was trying to hide anything about what happened. I'm anxious to hear what Tony Black says today at 6pm as he'll explain if it is even possible to inadvertantly hit a horse across the face while stick handling.

Sure looks like he was taking her to the woodshed, but it's hard to be sure given our collective lack of experience as to where the riders sit....

With the mare almost snapping her own neck off after the smack across the face, I'm pretty sure he knew there would be questions and it wasn't something that would be "missed", even if she had escaped unscathed...

I look forward to Tony's take as well.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Not sure what to make of the whole thing now. I think it's interesting that Howard Wolfendale, who prefers to NOT deal with ANY press, seems pretty OK with Rose's version of things and is being supportive of him. Says a lot no matter what anyone says. Wolfendale is an unusual guy.

Maggie said Rose immediately said to her and her mother after the race that he thought he caught the mare across face, so it isn't like he was trying to hide anything about what happened. I'm anxious to hear what Tony Black says today at 6pm as he'll explain if it is even possible to inadvertantly hit a horse across the face while stick handling.

Sure looks like he was taking her to the woodshed, but it's hard to be sure given our collective lack of experience as to where the riders sit....

This is the one thing I just can't get past. We can argue all day long about this, and there should be no arguement as to punishment being handed down, but this one thing I just can't get my arms around.

Would I have wanted to see Rose step up and admit he was wrong? Sure. Did it take 24-36 hours or so to craft a statement? OK. Does the connections supporting Rose say something? OK. On and on and on. I got that.

I already spoke with several jocks about this, several trainers, and people who were there and saw the race. Obviously to most, other opinions don't carry a lot of weight, perhaps zero. I guess we'll see how this plays out.

Eric

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Not sure what to make of the whole thing now. I think it's interesting that Howard Wolfendale, who prefers to NOT deal with ANY press, seems pretty OK with Rose's version of things and is being supportive of him. Says a lot no matter what anyone says. Wolfendale is an unusual guy.

Maggie said Rose immediately said to her and her mother after the race that he thought he caught the mare across face, so it isn't like he was trying to hide anything about what happened. I'm anxious to hear what Tony Black says today at 6pm as he'll explain if it is even possible to inadvertantly hit a horse across the face while stick handling.

Sure looks like he was taking her to the woodshed, but it's hard to be sure given our collective lack of experience as to where the riders sit....

If it looks like a duck...... you know the rest. I saw the race. Glad to hear that the horse didn't lose an eye. The explanations and interviews make me feel badly about the game. It is obvious from the head-on that the horse ducked in rather abruptly and then in a second or less, Rose smacked her accross he face. The horses jerking motion signalled the pain she experienced and after Rose knew he caused her that, HE HITS THE HORSE AGAIN A COUPLE OF TIMES FOR GOOD MEASURE. It is disturbing that the people closest to the animal aren't taking up the animals cause. The horse is depending on them to do that. Not to take up a defense of the one inflicting the harm. They are just openning the door to PETA and other animal rights groups.
But I don't believe we need to reserve judgement here. We have a video that I have scanned a number of times. We don't need to hear from a joc (although they are also a bit quiet on the subject as well), ride a chair in our office, or continue to listen to folks connected to the sport who should know better. They need to look at the horse and protect them.
I would love to hear from Mig. I never knew much about his riding (only been a fan of the sport over the last 6 years) but I saw him get upset when one of his mounts broke down at the beginning of a race in Saratoga in 2006. He needed to be consoled by the attendent at the scene. And it wasn't a horse that was a stakes winner and all. I grew to respect him alot more that day.