IEAH attempts to take the high road...

[Danzig]

'The Kentucky Horse Racing Authority will issue the ruling on Wednesday, suspend Dutrow for 15 days and demand the horse’s owner to return the $20,000 in purse earnings.'

'Veitch said the 15-day suspension and return of the purse money was the penalty for a first offense, according to Kentucky rules.'


but it's not his first offense, and not his first clenbuterol overage--is this his first in kentucky? and even if it is....well, let's revisit jeremy rose's six month suspension for a moment. he's off in delaware for six months, but they concede it's essentially a six month nationwide ban due to reciprocity between the states.


so why is there no reciprocity for things like this??

[jms62]

One could surely speculate that over the years Dutrow may have made some major betting scores on horses that tested positive and later lead to his suspensions... Basically the way I see it is if you dope a horse and he wins and you collect a bet basically are you not attempting to FIX the outcome of the race?? I believe is a federal offense.. Where are the federal officials ???? Of course this is my opinion...

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by jms62

One could surely speculate that over the years Dutrow may have made some major betting scores on horses that tested positive and later lead to his suspensions... Basically the way I see it is if you dope a horse and he wins and you collect a bet basically are you not attempting to FIX the outcome of the race?? I believe is a federal offense.. Where are the federal officials ???? Of course this is my opinion...

I'm not sure racing wants things to go this route (criminalizing drug positives), but this is how the feds got Greg Martin in the A One Rocket case.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I'm not sure racing wants things to go this route (criminalizing drug positives), but this is how the feds got Greg Martin in the A One Rocket case.

And if they did a little more surveillence they could do more of this. Though I admit the Feds did stumble onto to this.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And if they did a little more surveillence they could do more of this. Though I admit the Feds did stumble onto to this.

I agree on the surveillance part. Would you object to a camera in every stall?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I agree on the surveillance part. Would you object to a camera in every stall?

Waste of time. Too large of a project to police. Plus how would you tell what is legit and what isnt or which horse is which? If there are 1500 stalls at Belmont would you have 1500 monitors or people to watch the tapes? What there should be in real investigators. I ask you as a lawyer, how far do you think they could go before you get into privacy issues?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Waste of time. Too large of a project to police. Plus how would you tell what is legit and what isnt or which horse is which? If there are 1500 stalls at Belmont would you have 1500 monitors or people to watch the tapes? What there should be in real investigators. I ask you as a lawyer, how far do you think they could go before you get into privacy issues?

I don't think there is any privacy issue; no reasonable expectation of privacy exists on an otherwise public piece property. Furthermore, I would think that NYRA, for example, could get around any possible privacy concerns by making the trainer consent to such surveillance as part of the stall application.

I realize some of the practical issues that you raise, but I think some people might think twice about doing certain things if they thought someone "was watching." Furthermore, I think that there are some trainers that we can both agree don't need to be as closely monitored as others, so it's probably not like you have to watch all 1500 horses all the time. But if there are suspicions of shenanigans, you do have somewhere to start.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Waste of time. Too large of a project to police. Plus how would you tell what is legit and what isnt or which horse is which? If there are 1500 stalls at Belmont would you have 1500 monitors or people to watch the tapes? What there should be in real investigators. I ask you as a lawyer, how far do you think they could go before you get into privacy issues?

In Las Vegas in a typical casino, you may have 100-200 monitors and there are probably 3 people monitoring the monitors. They're obviously not going to catch everything but if they notice something suspicious they can take a closer look. It is more of a deterrent than anything else. People are less likely to try to do someting illegal if they think they are being filmed.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

One could surely speculate that over the years Dutrow may have made some major betting scores on horses that tested positive and later lead to his suspensions... Basically the way I see it is if you dope a horse and he wins and you collect a bet basically are you not attempting to FIX the outcome of the race?? I believe is a federal offense.. Where are the federal officials ???? Of course this is my opinion...

that is an excellent point you've raised.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Danzig

that is an excellent point you've raised.

Not in reality.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Not in reality.

why not in reality ? if dick dutrow cheats.. then bets heavy, what exactly is it ? sometimes i just dont get it, it seems very simple and maybe dick should be banned for life down to mexico with the hookers, ho's drugs and everything else he's into

[jms62]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

why not in reality ? if dick dutrow cheats.. then bets heavy, what exactly is it ? sometimes i just dont get it, it seems very simple and maybe dick should be banned for life down to mexico with the hookers, ho's drugs and everything else he's into

I believe his point is how can this be proven as I am sure Dickydo doesn't visit the window on his own.. However if the feds really wanted to I am sure they could sniff it out.

If stuff like this happened in the stock market, you would have a line of lawyers filing class action suits and it would be a deterrant.. This doesn't work at the races as you have too many people that have been damaged to chase down and no paper trail to identify them...

My thoughts on this whole drug thing and of course there are problems with this thought. We need the owners to put pressure on the trainers. Make no doubt about it , owners are not in the dark here they just choose to be. If a trainer tests positive (or multiple positives ?), ALL HORSES UNDER HIS CARE AT THE TIME OF THE CRIME should serve a suspension and not be allowed to run period for x number of days. No transferring to another trainer would be allowed, no moving to another track.... Owners would certainly put pressure on trainers to stay clean... Again there is a lot of things that would need to be worked out here such as what to do about overages on legal medications etc...