New poll- best juice

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In light of the hearings tommorrow I figured this would be timely.

LOL. On a related note, I was intrigued by Gary West's comments today on medication, specifically his portrayal/analogy on clenbuterol -- I didn't take notes, but it sounded like he was saying how it's unfair that certain "owners" can afford it, others cannot, and that makes the game unfair.

Eric

[philcski]

i have an addiction to POM juice.

it's an expensive habit.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by philcski

i have an addiction to POM juice.

it's an expensive habit.

v8 still my fave. with a bit of vodka, even better.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by ELA

LOL. On a related note, I was intrigued by Gary West's comments today on medication, specifically his portrayal/analogy on clenbuterol -- I didn't take notes, but it sounded like he was saying how it's unfair that certain "owners" can afford it, others cannot, and that makes the game unfair.

Eric

I kind of think there is something to this. Do we want to force owners out of the game because they can't afford a chemical edge? We are probably there already.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I kind of think there is something to this. Do we want to force owners out of the game because they can't afford a chemical edge? We are probably there already.

This is a very microscopic way of looking at just this one aspect. It's also a very dangerous and very slippery slope. First, the so called "chemical edge" -- in this case is a perfectly legal one. That doesn't make it cut and dry, but to what extent can we call this an edge? We have similar elements in other sports, although none are exactly the same. I don't think it's about forcing owners out of the game. How does this play out? Our own version of a "salary cap" or something of the like? I mean, where does this end up.

Some may treat ownership as a business, others may not. So, dismiss from this discussion those who don't. For the remaining, why should this not be like any other "business"? If you can't afford to be competitive -- legally, and that is the key -- then what are your choices? Remain noncompetitive or get competitive. If you want to "improve" your business, often it takes "investment" so to speak.

I have heard plenty of owners and trainers complain about their competition. Sure, it's very valid and something must be done when we are talking about those few who have histories of cheating. But what about those who do not? I've heard plenty of complaints about trainers who are sucessful, high % trainers, win races, produce, step horses up, etc. -- and some of these trainers haven't had a positive test in their entire career. Sometimes, there is a "save face" aspect to this game, and I think many people are quick to "blame" and point fingers as an excuse.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I kind of think there is something to this. Do we want to force owners out of the game because they can't afford a chemical edge? We are probably there already.

There may be a bit of truth to this but not in the way West describes. A trainer friend of mine who has a medium sized stable (30 horses) got 3 horses from a owner who had the horses with a big name trainer. He asked the owner to send him the last few vet bills for the horse to see what they had been doing with the horses so he had a little bit of a history. Each horse had between a $1200 and $2000 per month vet bill. This is on horses that were not winning or even running well. There wasnt anything unusual but these horses are getting every possible thing that can be given. A large portion of the bill was gastrogard but they were getting clembuterol, adequan, lubrysn, etc. It obviously wasnt doing much for these three but they werent really any good for my friend either at lower level tracks. I guess the point of the story is that the big trainers are casting a wide net in terms of doing everything possible to keep their horses healthy at a high cost which their owners seem to be willing to pay. In some cases it may be an advantage simply because some of those things may help an individual horse to compete at it's highest level though much may simply be overkill. But there are very few owners that can afford a $2000 a month vet bill especially on horses not earning.

[blackthroatedwind]

The poll reflects the age of the posters here.

I honestly wish those of you that didn't vote for Oscar were around then. You just wouldn't believe what he used to do.

[Cannon Shell]

Too bad Oscar isnt still alive to be called in front of Congress

[Indian Charlie]

What about Byrne from around ten years ago. I think at one Keeneland meet, he had seventeen starters, and went something like 17 14-3-0.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Wesley Ward

[Cannon Shell]

I hate to tell you guys but if you didnt vote for Oscar you really dont know what good juice is. Some of the things he did would make guys like Scavs just insane. Like claiming a horse for $25000 out of the 2nd race on Wednesday, reenter the horse the same day because entries were not filled yet and run back for $40000 on Friday and gallop. Alot. Or run a horse 5 times in a month at different distances and win most of them. And when they were off a long time and dropped hard they never won, never. And when the water was finally turned off he was totally dead. His brother won the triple crown by the way.

[MISTERGEE]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Too bad Oscar isnt still alive to be called in front of Congress

isnt his son still training, must not have inherited the juice, how bout t. jshese in other venues, k. ziadie, w. ward, j. ness, w. catalano--r. slomkowski, r. martinez, cartagena. just some minot league juice maybe, whadya think?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

isnt his son still training, must not have inherited the juice, how bout t. jshese in other venues, k. ziadie, w. ward, j. ness, w. catalano--r. slomkowski, r. martinez, cartagena. just some minot league juice maybe, whadya think?

His son did not get the formula.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The poll reflects the age of the posters here.

I honestly wish those of you that didn't vote for Oscar were around then. You just wouldn't believe what he used to do.

I thought it was normal to claim a horse for $20,000 and then have it win a stakes race 4 days later. LOL. I have never seen anyone come close to Oscar. When horses moved into his barn, it was not uncommon for them to literally improve 10 lengths overnight.

Did they ever figure out what he was giving them?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I thought it was normal to claim a horse for $20,000 and then have it win a stakes race 4 days later. LOL. I have never seen anyone come close to Oscar. When horses moved into his barn, it was not uncommon for them to literally improve 10 lengths overnight.

Did they ever figure out what he was giving them?

Flinstone vitamins

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The poll reflects the age of the posters here.

I honestly wish those of you that didn't vote for Oscar were around then. You just wouldn't believe what he used to do.

Nothing was better then listening to Pack in his prime trying his best not to puke talking about an Oscar claim from a week ago for 15k that trounced 40 claimers by 8... Now that was training...BTW the Horse typically paid 5.80

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Nothing was better then listening to Pack in his prime trying his best not to puke talking about an Oscar claim from a week ago for 15k that trounced 40 claimers by 8... Now that was training...BTW the Horse typically paid 5.80

Utter disdain.

[pgiaco]

Or how about claiming Shifty Sheik and almost winning the Woodward or The Jockey Club Gold Cup? Can't remember which race it was.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by pgiaco

Or how about claiming Shifty Sheik and almost winning the Woodward or The Jockey Club Gold Cup? Can't remember which race it was.

How about claiming Miesques Approval for 50k? and winning the FN Breeder Cup.. Fear the Wolf

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The poll reflects the age of the posters here.

I honestly wish those of you that didn't vote for Oscar were around then. You just wouldn't believe what he used to do.

He was one of a kind, made a LOT of money with his runners.