6/14 (CD): Stephen Foster Day

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

Our top class grass horses are inferior to top class European horses on the turf. Not even a contest.

That's like saying our sprinters in the Olympics aren't superior to the Polish 100 meter runners.

Different ballgame

In general, obviously, you're right. But there's nothing to say that America can't produce a grass horse who could compete with the euros. If somehow Curlin ended up being just as good on grass as he is on dirt he could probably compete. Personally, I think Barbaro could've won some big European turf races.

[Danzig]

i just don't know that a horse who is used to running on hard, fast tracks can then run over a hard turf track and then be set to run on the mush overseas. seriously, the cut in the ground over there is nothing to sneeze at. and it matters tremendously. even if curlin ran at arlington or monmouth, in no way would that course compare to what he'd be on in france.

but good luck to him and his connections. they will surely need it. just remember horses like george washington, who look like champs on the turf over there, but look like fish out of water here in the classic on dirt.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

In general, obviously, you're right. But there's nothing to say that America can't produce a grass horse who could compete with the euros. If somehow Curlin ended up being just as good on grass as he is on dirt he could probably compete. Personally, I think Barbaro could've won some big European turf races.

If Barbaro could've, then Big Brown surely can. Maybe they should point him for the Arc.

I mean, he won his maiden on grass by a pole beating a bunch of shitboxes.

Barbaro's turf races were against shitty competition, and people act like he could have won the Epsom Derby off of the Delaware Futurity.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Scurlogue Champ

If Barbaro could've, then Big Brown surely can. Maybe they should point him for the Arc.

I mean, he won his maiden on grass by a pole beating a bunch of shitboxes.

Barbaro's turf races were against shitty competition, and people act like he could have won the Epsom Derby off of the Delaware Futurity.

Barbaro was a VERY good turf horse. I think they should put Big Brown back on the turf - easier to keep him sound that way and he's already proven himself on the dirt enough stud-wise.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Barbaro was a VERY good turf horse. I think they should put Big Brown back on the turf - easier to keep him sound that way and he's already proven himself on the dirt enough stud-wise.

big brown is a decent horse in a horrible crop... last year hes not even top 5.

[jcs11204]

this year he almost wins the triple crown.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

big brown is a decent horse in a horrible crop... last year hes not even top 5.

almost no argument here . . . but I'd probably put him 3 or 4. . .

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

almost no argument here . . . but I'd probably put him 3 or 4. . .

3 ? omg hockey i like you and all but 3, wow even 4 ?

rags to riches....curlin... street sense.... hard spun

i could argue tiago... lears princess and lady joanee and grasshopper.... as 3 yr olds.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

3 ? omg hockey i like you and all but 3, wow even 4 ?

rags to riches - no....curlin yes... street sense I never liked him but yes.... hard spun maybe

i could argue tiago no way... lears princess is this a joke? and lady joanee seriously? and grasshopper please stop.... as 3 yr olds.

...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

3 ? omg hockey i like you and all but 3, wow even 4 ?

rags to riches....curlin... street sense.... hard spun

i could argue tiago... lears princess and lady joanee and grasshopper.... as 3 yr olds.

what has that got to do with anything?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

In general, obviously, you're right. But there's nothing to say that America can't produce a grass horse who could compete with the euros. If somehow Curlin ended up being just as good on grass as he is on dirt he could probably compete. Personally, I think Barbaro could've won some big European turf races.

I find it hard to believe that Curlin will be as good on turf as he is on dirt, and I'm as big of a Smart Strike on the turf fan as anyone. He's been trained his entire life to run on one surface, and how many American horses do we see running 115+ Beyers on the grass? It'll take at least that to compete with the Europeans on grass. He could be a very good turf horse and still be shy of what it would take to be competitive in a race like the Arc.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I find it hard to believe that Curlin will be as good on turf as he is on dirt, and I'm as big of a Smart Strike on the turf fan as anyone. He's been trained his entire life to run on one surface, and how many American horses do we see running 115+ Beyers on the grass? It'll take at least that to compete with the Europeans on grass. He could be a very good turf horse and still be shy of what it would take to be competitive in a race like the Arc.

What does the 115 Beyer have to do with it? Beyers are lower on turf (and less relevant) and they don't make beyers for euro races so I have no idea what those horses are running. I also doubt Curlin will be as good on dirt, but I'm not going to rule out the possibility of it happening because it would add some more excitement to a very dull year.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

What does the 115 Beyer have to do with it? Beyers are lower on turf (and less relevant) and they don't make beyers for euro races so I have no idea what those horses are running. I also doubt Curlin will be as good on dirt, but I'm not going to rule out the possibility of it happening because it would add some more excitement to a very dull year.

When European horses come run in the BC Turf (mind you we don't always get their best), they often run 110+ Beyers. If you don't think they're running at least the equivalent of that in the Arc.. I don't know what to say.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

When European horses come run in the BC Turf (mind you we don't always get their best), they often run 110+ Beyers. If you don't think they're running at least the equivalent of that in the Arc.. I don't know what to say.

Didn't you bring up the beyer thing as a reference to Curlin essentially saying that he probably can't run 115 beyers on turf but he can on dirt? I don't even know why you brought it up. . . I don't disagree with you that the horses in the Arc probably run that kind of fig (although, this is a dangerous and worthless assumption - imagine if beyers existed in Europe and not here and people were just assuming that all the top horses here were running 115s) but it just seems like a really strange way to look at things when beyers don't exist for European racing and beyers on turf aren't really the most accurate way to assess a performance. Curlin can beat any dirt horse in the world, so if he was just as good on the turf (which probably isn't the case) why couldn't he compete against top turf horses?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

In general, obviously, you're right. But there's nothing to say that America can't produce a grass horse who could compete with the euros. If somehow Curlin ended up being just as good on grass as he is on dirt he could probably compete. Personally, I think Barbaro could've won some big European turf races.

there have been many horses over the years that were bred here, and lit the place on fire running on turf overseas. we can produce them, we just don't know what to do with them after, other than sell them to foreign interests who know what they're looking for!