Patrick Biancone

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by pgiaco

Save for the part about being a cheat on 2 continents...

I will not defend his cheating but i am certain the guy is a top notch trainer, perhaps with a few vices he needs to correct

[ELA]

We have seen great teams and athletes, throughout the world of sports, cheat. We've seen entertainers and performers "cheat" (to some extent, if we would include lipsyncing as cheating per se).

While certainly not a defense or justification, as a matter of fact it's irrelevant; but a trainer can be an excellent trainer, horseman, etc. -- but also be cheating. OTOH, there are great trainers and horsemen who produce results and do not cheat.

Eric

[GBBob]

I guess I'm surprised that on a board, and in a racing environment in general, that questions the need for any steroids at all, the use of whips, etc, that a trainer(s) who are convicted cheaters, and not just for trace evidence, would be given the benefit of the doubt that their "greatness" is independant from their cheating.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I guess I'm surprised that on a board, and in a racing environment in general, that questions the need for any steroids at all, the use of whips, etc, that a trainer(s) who are convicted cheaters, and not just for trace evidence, would be given the benefit of the doubt that their "greatness" is independant from their cheating.

That's a good point. I don't think it's a benefit of the doubt. There are people who believe that a specific trainer is great BECAUSE of the chemistry and the cheating. There are others who know it. And, OTOH, there are those who know that even though someone is cheating, has cheated in a particular case, etc. -- even though, that specific trainer is a good trainer, excellent horseman, etc. However, like I said -- it doesn't matter.

Eric

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by ELA

That's a good point. I don't think it's a benefit of the doubt. There are people who believe that a specific trainer is great BECAUSE of the chemistry and the cheating. There are others who know it. And, OTOH, there are those who know that even though someone is cheating, has cheated in a particular case, etc. -- even though, that specific trainer is a good trainer, excellent horseman, etc. However, like I said -- it doesn't matter.

Eric

It becomes semantics at some point, you're right

[pgiaco]

Freddy, I respect your opinion, but I have a hard time seperating where his horsemanship begins and his chemistry ends.