Direct evidence of Iranian involvement???

[Downthestretch55]

There needs to be more proof required rather than Israel's say-so.
This could become much more dangerous in a very short while if the claim is proven to be true.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

There needs to be more proof required rather than Israel's say-so.
This could become much more dangerous in a very short while if the claim is proven to be true.

We know Iran and Syria have supplied weapons to terrorists groups and have trained them. This is clear. Iran having "advisors" in Lebanon is not that big an infraction compared to what is already known imo.

Both countries, Syria and Iran will come out losers after this is over. Syria probably less so if they comply. Iran may avoid all problems if the current regime shifts and they stop their enrichment program. Their will be more pressure on both these countries because of Lebanon, lots more.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

We know Iran and Syria have supplied weapons to terrorists groups and have trained them. This is clear. Iran having "advisors" in Lebanon is not that big an infraction compared to what is already known imo.

Both countries, Syria and Iran will come out losers after this is over. Syria probably less so if they comply. Iran may avoid all problems if the current regime shifts and they stop their enrichment program. Their will be more pressure on both these countries because of Lebanon, lots more.

Pgardn,
Let me first say that I respect your opinions.
Both Iran and Syria will respond to your first sentence by stating that the US has supplied and trained the Israel Defense Force. This is also true.
I see no indication that Iran will halt their nuclear enrichment program. They might view this situation as,,,Israel has nuclear weapons, so we need to as well...(I'm not stating this as fact, just trying to "read" the mindset.)

As far as pressure on Syria and Iran (and I'm no fan of either), in this game of "brinkmanship", Israel and the US are perceived as being the ones that stand against the rest of the world. Seems to me that the pressure is on both adversaries. For now, Lebanon is the "side show" unfortunately. Israel's refusal to halt the aggression (whether justified or not) continues to compromise the US's credibility. We have few enough allies at this point.

As I said in my previous post, this situation holds the potential to to become much more dangerous in a very short time. I truely hope that doesn't happen, but it looks like events are escalating faster than "cool heads" can prevent.

[Nostradamus]

Sounds like another effort by Israel to get the US to fight a war for them. No thanks. Fight your own wars. Iran has done nothing to the US.

[KonaNative]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Sounds like another effort by Israel to get the US to fight a war for them. No thanks. Fight your own wars. Iran has done nothing to the US.

Huh?? What?? They took over our Embassy in Tehran....Wars have been started for less provocation. Hezbollah blew up the marines barracks in Beirut with Iranian backing and blessing.
Is that enough for you? If not,what will it take?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by KonaNative

Huh?? What?? They took over our Embassy in Tehran....Wars have been started for less provocation. Hezbollah blew up the marines barracks in Beirut with Iranian backing and blessing.
Is that enough for you? If not,what will it take?

So, just to get this straight, you are using as provocation for war events that took place over 20 years ago? LOL.

The brilliance of some on this board proceeds to a new level.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

So, just to get this straight, you are using as provocation for war events that took place over 20 years ago? LOL.

The brilliance of some on this board proceeds to a new level.

Dalakhani,some of us do care,and remember that Hezbollah had the Marine barracks blown up(basically imploded on these marines while sleeping.)I don't remember the exact # of marines killed(I should....200-300 I believe.)Yes,I remember it,and this scum has never been brought to justice for it.May not bother you that they got away with it,but hopefully most aren't like you.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Pgardn,
Let me first say that I respect your opinions.
Both Iran and Syria will respond to your first sentence by stating that the US has supplied and trained the Israel Defense Force. This is also true.
I see no indication that Iran will halt their nuclear enrichment program. They might view this situation as,,,Israel has nuclear weapons, so we need to as well...(I'm not stating this as fact, just trying to "read" the mindset.)

As far as pressure on Syria and Iran (and I'm no fan of either), in this game of "brinkmanship", Israel and the US are perceived as being the ones that stand against the rest of the world. Seems to me that the pressure is on both adversaries. For now, Lebanon is the "side show" unfortunately. Israel's refusal to halt the aggression (whether justified or not) continues to compromise the US's credibility. We have few enough allies at this point.

As I said in my previous post, this situation holds the potential to to become much more dangerous in a very short time. I truely hope that doesn't happen, but it looks like events are escalating faster than "cool heads" can prevent.

The huge difference is the IDF and Israel are not terrorist organizations. Israel has no reason to stop their current advance as long as their cities in the North are shelled at will. We all need to be very clear that the Israeli incursion should not be equated with Hezbollah shelling random cities in Israel. People get this confused. There is ABSOLUTELY NO COMPARISON imo. We all know how this started and we all know who the terrortists are. Good and Evil often have very blurry gray areas. THis current situation holds very little gray areas in my view, very little.
We can debate how all the horrible poverty that many of these current terrorists grew up in may have made them monsters, etc... I abhor the situations cause the desperation and lack of hope that leads to the acts. But right now, the monsters must be dealt with as monsters. Here and now. If the region ever prospers economically, there will be hope that this ends.
This is where I differ greatly with "liberals".
As an example. ONe can talk endlessly about why a kid totally disrupts a school environment, how his parents beat him, etc... but you still have to remove the kid from the classes that he disrupts... its not fair to the other students. He cannot be allowed to "bring the house down"
You have to deal with the house burning right in front of your face. Then deal with the faulty wiring systems that might make other houses burn in the same way. TAke care of immediate problems... cant just pontificate on the root causes.

And I am sad to say that it will take a giant wack of radiation to rid this region of the cancer that has been allowed to fester. God Lord, a group run by a madman is getting tens of thousands of missles and shelling innocent people. He has been building this arsenal for a long time. The tendrils of this evil run deep into the heart of Lebanon. Time for the removal. Its gonna get very ugly.
I think back on WWI and how it was never really resolved. It led right into WWII. WWII ended in a horrible mannner. But at least two countries, Germany and Japan have reaped the benifits of riding themselves of totalitarian regimes and the deaths they caused. It basically took total anhilation to lead to peace.

I dont think terrorism is some invention in the mind of George Bush. He may have dealt with it very poorly in some aspects. But it is alive and really is a world-wide challenge to be dealt with.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

And I am sad to say that it will take a giant wack of radiation to rid this region of the cancer that has been allowed to fester. God Lord, a group run by a madman is getting tens of thousands of missles and shelling innocent people. He has been building this arsenal for a long time. The tendrils of this evil run deep into the heart of Lebanon. Time for the removal. Its gonna get very ugly.
I think back on WWI and how it was never really resolved. It led right into WWII. WWII ended in a horrible mannner. But at least two countries, Germany and Japan have reaped the benifits of riding themselves of totalitarian regimes and the deaths they caused. It basically took total anhilation to lead to peace.

I dont think terrorism is some invention in the mind of George Bush. He may have dealt with it very poorly in some aspects. But it is alive and really is a world-wide challenge to be dealt with.

Pgardn,
I forget the astronaut's name, but I remember some of his words when he looked at the earth from the surface of the moon. He said, "I'd like to take some of the politicians from down there, grab them by the neck, and say to the sonofabitches...NOW LOOK AT THAT!"

In milder words...

"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world." -Buddha

Radiation will solve nothing.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Well,I am often (along with DTS,AND GENUINE RISK)called Liberal on this site.I have some views that are in common with Liberals (on some issues.)This is certainly not one of them.Many Liberals simply read the words of other Liberals in order to find a position they think is the one to take. I think you know that myself and PGARDN don't agree on much,but on this subject we agree.According to most people who identify themselves as Liberals,Islam is no more violent or dangerous to nonbelievers than any other religion.That is as blind (to the facts before you) as it gets.I don't know what it will take before "those other than Israel and the U.S" figure out that this religion is a huge danger to those that don't believe in it. They will not be satisfied until every Jew is thrown out of the area now known as Israel. They don't want some of the land.They want every Jew in Israel killed,kicked out,beheaded,or liquefied.This belief that they want something less,and can be made peace with,is simply foolish.

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Radiation will solve nothing.

DTS.
I wish it were not true but it is. The absolute annhilation of Germany via the horrible firebombing of many of its cities by the British and US, and the wipeout invasion of Germany from the West and East (the Russians) solved a whole lot.

Japan. It took two, not one two, atomic bombs. It was horrible, it brought them to their knees. And... it solved a whole lot.

I would like to believe these cases are very diff. than what Israel faces now. Peace was made with Egypt. I dont believe peace can be made with a Lebanon that is controlled by Hezbollah. Hezbollah must be annhilated as an ARMED force. As long as they have missles nothing will be solved.

Scuds I really do not believe all Muslims want to kill everyone in Israel. I believe the key is not only peace, but prosperity. I will again use Northern Ireland as an example. Here is another case of a long history of war. Now the skirmishes are few and far between. Why? I believe its because people are at work feeding their families and taking vacations. They now have a life to live.
Commerce did this. Some big computer companies came in and put people to work. More commerce followed.

And I am referred to as a liberal by my conservative friends, many of who are in business. I am referred to as conservative by many in my profession.

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by pgardn

And I am sad to say that it will take a giant wack of radiation to rid this region of the cancer that has been allowed to fester. God Lord, a group run by a madman is getting tens of thousands of missles and shelling innocent people. He has been building this arsenal for a long time. The tendrils of this evil run deep into the heart of Lebanon. Time for the removal. Its gonna get very ugly.
I think back on WWI and how it was never really resolved. It led right into WWII. WWII ended in a horrible mannner. But at least two countries, Germany and Japan have reaped the benifits of riding themselves of totalitarian regimes and the deaths they caused. It basically took total anhilation to lead to peace.

I dont think terrorism is some invention in the mind of George Bush. He may have dealt with it very poorly in some aspects. But it is alive and really is a world-wide challenge to be dealt with.

Leave the US out of Israels problems. The US is far away from the Middle East and we are safe here as long as our CIA/NSA does their job. I sure as hell know our CIA wouldn't have allowed a bunch of terrorists to get tens of thousands of missiles on a bordering country. This is why I laugh so hard when people say the Mosaad is even comparable to our intelligence organizations. Israel needs to deal with their terrorist problems before they start, not after.