Dutrow should be suspended AGAIN

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Keep this one in mind when we are voting for Worst Thread of 2008.

It's going to have to wilt in the stretch to lose this title.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

It's going to have to wilt in the stretch to lose this title.

I'll try and keep it going.....




Dutrow criticizes Servis, Elliott

During Tuesday's conference call, Dutrow was asked if he feared someone trying to ride the Belmont just to beat Big Brown. It has been suggested by some observers that jockeys Jerry Bailey and Alex Solis moved their horses early in an attempt to force Smarty Jones and Elliott into a premature move.

Dutrow said he didn't believe that to be the case and criticized trainer John Servis and Elliott for the way they prepared Smarty Jones for the Belmont. Dutrow erroneously said that Smarty Jones had his last Belmont work over a sloppy sealed track at Philadelphia Park. The track was labeled fast for that move.

Dutrow, however, said Elliott should have taken Smarty Jones in hand late in the Preakness rather than win by 11 1/2 lengths.

"He did not need to win the way he did in the Preakness in order to get to the Belmont the right way," Dutrow said. "If you noticed our horse, Kent may have asked him for a little run turning for home, which he did, but at the eighth pole he grabbed a hold and he knew we still had another race to go through. I think that the connections of Smarty Jones just were not smart in order to get their job done for the Belmont."

The criticisms meant little to Servis.

"He's under a lot of pressure and a lot of times we say things we don't mean," Servis said. "I'm taking it with a grain of salt."

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

The criticisms meant little to Servis.

"He's under a lot of pressure and a lot of times we say things we don't mean," Servis said. "I'm taking it with a grain of salt."

Gonna need a lot of grains to get over the fact that he rode an idiot who got his horse beat in the BEL.

Oh, and I didn't need to quote any of the 'experts' on this.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Gonna need a lot of grains to get over the fact that he rode an idiot who got his horse beat in the BEL.

Oh, and I didn't need to quote any of the 'experts' on this.

Fatman...your post makes it look like I said these things.

Retract at once or you will hear from my legal counsel.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

I'll try and keep it going.....




Dutrow criticizes Servis, Elliott

During Tuesday's conference call, Dutrow was asked if he feared someone trying to ride the Belmont just to beat Big Brown. It has been suggested by some observers that jockeys Jerry Bailey and Alex Solis moved their horses early in an attempt to force Smarty Jones and Elliott into a premature move.

Dutrow said he didn't believe that to be the case and criticized trainer John Servis and Elliott for the way they prepared Smarty Jones for the Belmont. Dutrow erroneously said that Smarty Jones had his last Belmont work over a sloppy sealed track at Philadelphia Park. The track was labeled fast for that move.

Dutrow, however, said Elliott should have taken Smarty Jones in hand late in the Preakness rather than win by 11 1/2 lengths.

"He did not need to win the way he did in the Preakness in order to get to the Belmont the right way," Dutrow said. "If you noticed our horse, Kent may have asked him for a little run turning for home, which he did, but at the eighth pole he grabbed a hold and he knew we still had another race to go through. I think that the connections of Smarty Jones just were not smart in order to get their job done for the Belmont."

The criticisms meant little to Servis.

"He's under a lot of pressure and a lot of times we say things we don't mean," Servis said. "I'm taking it with a grain of salt."

While Servis/Elliott could be criticized for running off with the Preakness, Elliott did not ride him poorly in the Belmont. Horses went out of their form to push Smarty. They ended up tailing off while Smarty was still fighting in the stretch. I don't think they will do the same with Brown though. I think they were out to beat Smarty because they didn't like this upstart trainer from this small track with a small time jock winning the triple against them. Smarty was an excellent horse who would have been great if he could have over-come that gang-up.

Now if you want to get me started on a jock who I think is highly over-rated and prone to compromising his horse out of an inability to manage his anger, lets talk Sleepy (Kenny D.).

[blackthroatedwind]

Someone let me know when Stewie Elliot doesn't give a bad ride. That's a bigger lock than the sun coming up.

[The Bid]

Hes in the same league as Noberto Arroyo

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Hes in the same league as Noberto Arroyo

Norberto is ten times the rider Elliot is.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Norberto is ten times the rider Elliot is.

What about Rodney Prescott?

[Rupert Pupkin]

I agree with Dutrow 100% about what he said about Smarty Jones. These horses are not machines. You don't want to squeeze the lemon dry. When you have to run 3 times in 5 weeks, you have to leave something in the tank. I've always though that if Stewart Elliot would have geared Smarty Jones down in the Preakness and cruised home by 5 lengths, he would have probably won the Belmont.

The reason I think that Big Brown will win the Belmont is because he wasn't even close to being all out in the Preakness and the race probably didn't take that much out of him. He should be able to come back in 3 weeks and win.

[Quiet Chris]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I agree with Dutrow 100% about what he said about Smarty Jones. These horses are not machines. You don't want to squeeze the lemon dry. When you have to run 3 times in 5 weeks, you have to leave something in the tank. I've always though that if Stewart Elliot would have geared Smarty Jones down in the Preakness and cruised home by 5 lengths, he would have probably won the Belmont.

The reason I think that Big Brown will win the Belmont is because he wasn't even close to being all out in the Preakness and the race probably didn't take that much out of him. He should be able to come back in 3 weeks and win.

This is nonsense. SJ would have problems getting 12f no matter what. He simply was not a 12f horse. He had too many problems settling whenever he ran.

Throw in Prado riding Birdstone and you had the recipe for an upset. Just like when Prado beat War Emblem with Sarava. I am beginning to see a pattern here. We will see if Spark Candle can rattle Kent. Wouldn't be the first time. What will that make 3x Prado took down a potential triple crown. No coincidence there.

[hockey2315]

Prado wasn't the reason for Birdstone's upset.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Quiet Chris

This is nonsense. SJ would have problems getting 12f no matter what. He simply was not a 12f horse. He had too many problems settling whenever he ran.

Throw in Prado riding Birdstone and you had the recipe for an upset. Just like when Prado beat War Emblem with Sarava. I am beginning to see a pattern here. We will see if Spark Candle can rattle Kent. Wouldn't be the first time. What will that make 3x Prado took down a potential triple crown. No coincidence there.

Wasn't War Emblem somewhere in the vicinity of last?

Horses win races.....jockeys lose them.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by Quiet Chris

This is nonsense. SJ would have problems getting 12f no matter what. He simply was not a 12f horse. He had too many problems settling whenever he ran.

Throw in Prado riding Birdstone and you had the recipe for an upset. Just like when Prado beat War Emblem with Sarava. I am beginning to see a pattern here. We will see if Spark Candle can rattle Kent. Wouldn't be the first time. What will that make 3x Prado took down a potential triple crown. No coincidence there.

i was going to defend smarty by pointing out he finished 2nd by a length but then i finished reading the post and my head exploded.

i really didn't want to defend him anyway.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Quiet Chris

This is nonsense. SJ would have problems getting 12f no matter what. He simply was not a 12f horse. He had too many problems settling whenever he ran.

Throw in Prado riding Birdstone and you had the recipe for an upset. Just like when Prado beat War Emblem with Sarava. I am beginning to see a pattern here. We will see if Spark Candle can rattle Kent. Wouldn't be the first time. What will that make 3x Prado took down a potential triple crown. No coincidence there.

I agree that 12f was not Smarty's ideal distance. That would make it even more imperative for him to come into the race 100% to have his best shot. He didn't come into the race 100% after knocking himself out in the Preakness when he really didn't need to.

Here is a message I sent to Dunbar before the Preakness. I sent this to him the morning of the Preakness regarding Big Brown:

"Unless Big Brown regresses tremendously, he should win today. But I think the most important thing to watch for today is whether the horse is asked or not. Smarty Jones won the Preakness by about 10 lengths, but he was being asked and he was all out. It was a huge mistake on the part of Stuart Elliot. If Elliot would have taken a nice hold of the horse and cruised home by 4 lengths in hand, he would have probably won the Belmont. These horses are not machines. You don't want to squeeze the lemon dry. Desormeaux needs to leave something in the tank for the Belmont. Dutrow is pretty sharp. I think he is aware of this and will probably tell Kent to try to save something. If he is whipping and driving today, I will not like his chances in the Belmont."

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm curious, because you haven't really mentioned it. What are your feelings about big Brown and Dutrow?

my feelings are dutrow is a scumbag, does drugs, and picks up hookers... i know that to be a 100% fact....
as for big brown, casino drive....ROYAL PEDIGREE.... and i belive he beats him next sat. and i will be making a large win bet on casino

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I agree with Dutrow 100% about what he said about Smarty Jones. These horses are not machines. You don't want to squeeze the lemon dry. When you have to run 3 times in 5 weeks, you have to leave something in the tank. I've always though that if Stewart Elliot would have geared Smarty Jones down in the Preakness and cruised home by 5 lengths, he would have probably won the Belmont.

The reason I think that Big Brown will win the Belmont is because he wasn't even close to being all out in the Preakness and the race probably didn't take that much out of him. He should be able to come back in 3 weeks and win.

I wish someone could explain this logic to me. If he was running a race an hour after the Preakness, I can see how this may be bad. But is it really meaningful in a race THREE weeks later that running .20 slower will make you win the race in THREE weeks? I mean running 9.5f fast is tough on a horse regardless. Is a tenth of a second slower really gonna mean the difference between winning and losing three weeks later?? It must be true because all the experts agree...but how is it true??

Personally if I run 2 miles today 2 seconds faster than normal...in 24 hours I will feel exactly the same regardless. How is it so much different than a horse that 3 weeks later, running 9.5 furlongs 0.2 seconds slower makes so much physiological difference??

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I wish someone could explain this logic to me. If he was running a race an hour after the Preakness, I can see how this may be bad. But is it really meaningful in a race THREE weeks later that running .20 slower will make you win the race in THREE weeks? I mean running 9.5f fast is tough on a horse regardless. Is a tenth of a second slower really gonna mean the difference between winning and losing three weeks later?? It must be true because all the experts agree...but how is it true??

Personally if I run 2 miles today 2 seconds faster than normal...in 24 hours I will feel exactly the same regardless. How is it so much different than a horse that 3 weeks later, running 9.5 furlongs 0.2 seconds slower makes so much physiological difference??

Uh....how many legs do you have?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I wish someone could explain this logic to me. If he was running a race an hour after the Preakness, I can see how this may be bad. But is it really meaningful in a race THREE weeks later that running .20 slower will make you win the race in THREE weeks? I mean running 9.5f fast is tough on a horse regardless. Is a tenth of a second slower really gonna mean the difference between winning and losing three weeks later?? It must be true because all the experts agree...but how is it true??

Personally if I run 2 miles today 2 seconds faster than normal...in 24 hours I will feel exactly the same regardless. How is it so much different than a horse that 3 weeks later, running 9.5 furlongs 0.2 seconds slower makes so much physiological difference??

First of all, we're not talking about 1/10th of a second. One length is about 1/5th of a second. So if a horse wins by 10 lengths instead of 5 lengths, we are talking about a full second. Under one scenario, the horse is all out. Under the other scenario, the horse is not even close to being all out. It makes a huge difference.

By the way, I saw Smarty Jones train between the Preakness and the Belmont and he didn't look like the same horse. In his morning gallops before the Derby and the Preakness, he couldn't have looked any sharper. He had his neck arched and ears pricked and he looked unbelievable. He didn't look the same way after the Preakness. That race knocked him out.