Doubling the DWC to 12 million, WOW!!!

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

builds another state of the art racing facility, literally rolls out the red carpet each year for he world, invests in racing and breeding all over the world, doubles the purses of the WC,... when is this guy going to do something for the sport already?

Jim, and Gioia too..

While I appreciate your zeal for the DWC and enjoyment of International racing, perpetuating the notion that Sh. Mo in particular is doing good things for racing is utterly ridiculous. He's single-handedly destroying the game by disturbing the sport's competitive balance and effectively trying to simply buy control of it. Invests in breeding? He's not investing, he's maniacally trying to buy ALL the breeding. And of course there will never be a decent 3yo that sees a handicap season as long as Darley continues in their current fashion.

He's also created the disgusting nouveau scenario of the instant purchase of any young horse, or even any decent looking older horse, which will completely ruin the game for fans. Thanks to Mo, you can look forward to a 'Rollerball' style corporate game shortly where Darley, Godolphin, IEAH and Team Valor basically have bought any decent horse. There will be a few holdouts that don't need the money, but most operations or owners will be compelled to sell.

There is in fact a rumor from credible sources that Darley approached IEAH/Pompa Friday night with a $30 million offer for Big Brown. IEAH has a huge war chest and would rather campaign forward at this point, but you can see what you're dealing with. And of course IEAH themselves threw $2MM at Pompa for 75% of Big Brown off the maiden win last summer...

It's not 'sporting', as Sh. Mo's shills love to claim, just as it wasn't sporting to retire Bernadini. And $12MM for a single race is of course just obscene and garish and typical of the way he operates believing that throwing money at everything assures some kind of 'class'. It's actually embarrassing. What pleasure he can take when whichever American-bred juvenile he bought smashes the career earnings record in his 7th career start with $11,000,000 accrued from the World Cup win on the heels of his wins in the previous year's UAE Derby and 3 stages of Mahktoum Challenges...

[Danzig]

buying the stairway to heaven.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Jim, and Gioia too..

While I appreciate your zeal for the DWC and enjoyment of International racing, perpetuating the notion that Sh. Mo in particular is doing good things for racing is utterly ridiculous. He's single-handedly destroying the game by disturbing the sport's competitive balance and effectively trying to simply buy control of it. Invests in breeding? He's not investing, he's maniacally trying to buy ALL the breeding. And of course there will never be a decent 3yo that sees a handicap season as long as Darley continues in their current fashion.

He's also created the disgusting nouveau scenario of the instant purchase of any young horse, or even any decent looking older horse, which will completely ruin the game for fans. Thanks to Mo, you can look forward to a 'Rollerball' style corporate game shortly where Darley, Godolphin, IEAH and Team Valor basically have bought any decent horse. There will be a few holdouts that don't need the money, but most operations or owners will be compelled to sell.

There is in fact a rumor from credible sources that Darley approached IEAH/Pompa Friday night with a $30 million offer for Big Brown. IEAH has a huge war chest and would rather campaign forward at this point, but you can see what you're dealing with. And of course IEAH themselves threw $2MM at Pompa for 75% of Big Brown off the maiden win last summer...

It's not 'sporting', as Sh. Mo's shills love to claim, just as it wasn't sporting to retire Bernadini. And $12MM for a single race is of course just obscene and garish and typical of the way he operates believing that throwing money at everything assures some kind of 'class'. It's actually embarrassing. What pleasure he can take when whichever American-bred juvenile he bought smashes the career earnings record in his 7th career start with $11,000,000 accrued from the World Cup win on the heels of his wins in the previous year's UAE Derby and 3 stages of Mahktoum Challenges...

You can look at the other side, where he is pumping tons of money into the American industry by buying those horses, assuming the people that are selling, are putting that money back into the industry. It isn't like he is charging ridiculous amounts of money for his stallions either, they are all priced at the right level.

I to would love to see some of these horses continue to race, but the very fact that YEARLINGS sell for a million dollars at the sales prevents that, there is just too much money in the breeding side. WHEN THAT evens out, meaning when racing = breeding, then you will have an even industry.

All this industry is doing, is what every other industry in America is doing, consolidating....

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Scav

You can look at the other side, where he is pumping tons of money into the American industry by buying those horses, assuming the people that are selling, are putting that money back into the industry. It isn't like he is charging ridiculous amounts of money for his stallions either, they are all priced at the right level.

I to would love to see some of these horses continue to race, but the very fact that YEARLINGS sell for a million dollars at the sales prevents that, there is just too much money in the breeding side. WHEN THAT evens out, meaning when racing = breeding, then you will have an even industry.

All this industry is doing, is what every other industry in America is doing, consolidating....

They are creating a bubble economy Scav. The yearlings are selling for a million dollars to a lot of people hoping to be able to sell them to Shiekh Mo for $10 million off a maiden win. They aren't worth that million without the possibility of selling them to Shiekh Mo. A lot of people think that Shiekh Mo stopping spending money in America would be a disaster because the bubble would pop. And yeah, a lot of people in the industry that are thriving off that bubble would take a hit. In the long run though it might be the best thing for the sport for that breeding bubble to burst.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

They are creating a bubble economy Scav. The yearlings are selling for a million dollars to a lot of people hoping to be able to sell them to Shiekh Mo for $10 million off a maiden win. They aren't worth that million without the possibility of selling them to Shiekh Mo. A lot of people think that Shiekh Mo stopping spending money in America would be a disaster because the bubble would pop. And yeah, a lot of people in the industry that are thriving off that bubble would take a hit. In the long run though it might be the best thing for the sport for that breeding bubble to burst.

I couldn't agree with you more. But it is NO DIFFERENT then something like the housing economy in the US.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Scav

I couldn't agree with you more. But it is NO DIFFERENT then something like the housing economy in the US.

The big difference is that the entire bubble is being created in large part by one person.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The big difference is that the entire bubble is being created in large part by one person.

There are 4 people creating that bubble.

I don't want it to look like I am defending this guy, because personally, I can care less what goes on over there, although it does look like a cool place to visit.

I just think that people are missing the big picture, what the industry as a whole is doing.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Scav

There are 4 people creating that bubble.

I don't want it to look like I am defending this guy, because personally, I can care less what goes on over there, although it does look like a cool place to visit.

I just think that people are missing the big picture, what the industry as a whole is doing.

Take the one with the limitless resources out of the picture and the spending by the other three drops dramatically. I think you are underestimating just how much money this guy has and how much the economy of Dubai is making him each year. The money won't run out, he gets virtually none of it from oil anymore so won't even be impacted if we somehow reduced our dependance on oil.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

With what Godolphin and others are doing, how can it ever even out?

Money eventually runs out, it always does, you can NEVER have enough of it, even this guy.

It is no different then say the Beer Industry. Right now in one of my final classes, we have to do a strategic audit on a company, the teacher picked the beer industry. The industry as a whole has 4 major players, and then a bunch of fringe players. It is exactly what is going on here. You have 4 major owners, some people that are trying to get to that level, and then you have the fringe players, that take what they can get.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by Scav

It is no different then say the Beer Industry. Right now in one of my final classes, we have to do a strategic audit on a company, the teacher picked the beer industry. The industry as a whole has 4 major players, and then a bunch of fringe players. It is exactly what is going on here. You have 4 major owners, some people that are trying to get to that level, and then you have the fringe players, that take what they can get.

I understand where you're going with this, and it was brought up prior, but the top four major players in the beer market don't have unlimited pockets, or charge ridiculously low prices, to eliminte the others. They still, by large, keep the market competitive.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I understand where you're going with this, and it was brought up prior, but the top four major players in the beer market don't have unlimited pockets, or charge ridiculously low prices, to eliminte the others. They still, by large, keep the market competitive.

They constantly buy up smaller breweries, or they essentially force them into a distributation agreement (such as a company like RedHook, which is who I am doing the audit on)

It has been either merge upon merge or just getting consolidated into one of the largers.

I don't have their 10k's handy, and with it being a highly regulated industry, their piss away alot of money on regulators and **** like that, but they aint struggling, their pockets/power, is pretty large

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Scav

They constantly buy up smaller breweries, or they essentially force them into a distributation agreement (such as a company like RedHook, which is who I am doing the audit on)

It has been either merge upon merge or just getting consolidated into one of the largers.

I don't have their 10k's handy, and with it being a highly regulated industry, their piss away alot of money on regulators and **** like that, but they aint struggling, their pockets/power, is pretty large

But that still isn't comparable to Godolphin and racing. Miller and Bud battle for exclusivity at sporting events. You think if Sheik Mo wanted his beer ( I know..bad analogy) at the UC, he wouldn't just quadruple the highest offer from Miller or Bud and we'll all be drinking Mo's Brew? No one else is capable of that in the beer industry, let alone the horse biz. I don't think you have an appreciation for exactly how much money he does have.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GBBob

But that still isn't comparable to Godolphin and racing. Miller and Bud battle for exclusivity at sporting events. You think if Sheik Mo wanted his beer ( I know..bad analogy) at the UC, he wouldn't just quadruple the highest offer from Miller or Bud and we'll all be drinking Mo's Brew? No one else is capable of that in the beer industry, let alone the horse biz. I don't think you have an appreciation for exactly how much money he does have.

I probably don't, never really thought on that scale, but some are stating that he is destroying the industry, when in fact, it is the industry that is destroying itself and a few select helping move forward with the destruction, he is the head kingpin in the destruction, but he is doing more for horse racing then the others are, at least from what I can tell. It is very lopsided as far as where the money comes from.

Look, it is a bad cycle, any time you have uneven power, it leads to conversations like this, both hatred and love, opinions from both sides, with essentially no right or wrong, no solution or plan

Sooner or later, it will even out, 10 years ago, he wasn't in the American industry, who is to say that in 10 years he will be around....

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Jim, and Gioia too..

While I appreciate your zeal for the DWC and enjoyment of International racing, perpetuating the notion that Sh. Mo in particular is doing good things for racing is utterly ridiculous. He's single-handedly destroying the game by disturbing the sport's competitive balance and effectively trying to simply buy control of it. Invests in breeding? He's not investing, he's maniacally trying to buy ALL the breeding. And of course there will never be a decent 3yo that sees a handicap season as long as Darley continues in their current fashion.

He's also created the disgusting nouveau scenario of the instant purchase of any young horse, or even any decent looking older horse, which will completely ruin the game for fans. Thanks to Mo, you can look forward to a 'Rollerball' style corporate game shortly where Darley, Godolphin, IEAH and Team Valor basically have bought any decent horse. There will be a few holdouts that don't need the money, but most operations or owners will be compelled to sell.

There is in fact a rumor from credible sources that Darley approached IEAH/Pompa Friday night with a $30 million offer for Big Brown. IEAH has a huge war chest and would rather campaign forward at this point, but you can see what you're dealing with. And of course IEAH themselves threw $2MM at Pompa for 75% of Big Brown off the maiden win last summer...

It's not 'sporting', as Sh. Mo's shills love to claim, just as it wasn't sporting to retire Bernadini. And $12MM for a single race is of course just obscene and garish and typical of the way he operates believing that throwing money at everything assures some kind of 'class'. It's actually embarrassing. What pleasure he can take when whichever American-bred juvenile he bought smashes the career earnings record in his 7th career start with $11,000,000 accrued from the World Cup win on the heels of his wins in the previous year's UAE Derby and 3 stages of Mahktoum Challenges...

I respectfully disagree.

[brockguy]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Jim, and Gioia too..

While I appreciate your zeal for the DWC and enjoyment of International racing, perpetuating the notion that Sh. Mo in particular is doing good things for racing is utterly ridiculous. He's single-handedly destroying the game by disturbing the sport's competitive balance and effectively trying to simply buy control of it. Invests in breeding? He's not investing, he's maniacally trying to buy ALL the breeding. And of course there will never be a decent 3yo that sees a handicap season as long as Darley continues in their current fashion.

He's also created the disgusting nouveau scenario of the instant purchase of any young horse, or even any decent looking older horse, which will completely ruin the game for fans. Thanks to Mo, you can look forward to a 'Rollerball' style corporate game shortly where Darley, Godolphin, IEAH and Team Valor basically have bought any decent horse. There will be a few holdouts that don't need the money, but most operations or owners will be compelled to sell.

There is in fact a rumor from credible sources that Darley approached IEAH/Pompa Friday night with a $30 million offer for Big Brown. IEAH has a huge war chest and would rather campaign forward at this point, but you can see what you're dealing with. And of course IEAH themselves threw $2MM at Pompa for 75% of Big Brown off the maiden win last summer...

It's not 'sporting', as Sh. Mo's shills love to claim, just as it wasn't sporting to retire Bernadini. And $12MM for a single race is of course just obscene and garish and typical of the way he operates believing that throwing money at everything assures some kind of 'class'. It's actually embarrassing. What pleasure he can take when whichever American-bred juvenile he bought smashes the career earnings record in his 7th career start with $11,000,000 accrued from the World Cup win on the heels of his wins in the previous year's UAE Derby and 3 stages of Mahktoum Challenges...

Steve,

Id like to believe that last years insane spending by the Sheikh was an anomaly and that seeing his Darley stud so far behind main rivals Coolmore, wanted to rectify that and wanted to do it quickly, hence the purchases of Street Sense, Hard Spun, Authorised, Manduro, Admire Moon etc etc..

From the Guardian article below, he's spent roughly one billion pounds (>1Billion Dollars) on Bloodstock in the past year. I just cant for the life of me see that he can continue this aggressive tactic for more than another year.

Looking at it over here, The Sheikh basically owns the top 4 prospects for the 2000 Guineas - New Approach, Ravens Pass, Ibn Kaldoun and Faat Company. They are all splendid stallion prospects but all else things being equal, they are all successful, i cant see them all retiring to stud...

I was just looking back at a thread i started a while back on the top 10 Godolphin horses ever, it is interesting to note that by my estimate 8 of those wouldnt be there if they had retired at 3. In the late 90s early 00's they were great for racing their top older horses through into their 4th 5th a 6th years. But I suppose therein lies the problem. Very few breeders want slowly maturing types that only really became top class as a 4 or 5 year old.

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/horserac...269381,00.html

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by brockguy

Id like to believe that last years insane spending by the Sheikh was an anomaly and that seeing his Darley stud so far behind main rivals Coolmore, wanted to rectify that and wanted to do it quickly, hence the purchases of Street Sense, Hard Spun, Authorised, Manduro, Admire Moon etc etc.

Don't know if you saw but they already scooped up the stud rights to Pyro which coupled with the attempt to get the stud rights to Big Brown doesn't exactly give the impression that last year was a one year anomaly.

[brockguy]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Don't know if you saw but they already scooped up the stud rights to Pyro which coupled with the attempt to get the stud rights to Big Brown doesn't exactly give the impression that last year was a one year anomaly.

yeah i heard about the purchase of pyro and on this thread re: big brown.. I still think it will take some effort to match last years buying spree though..

Just thinking about this further. Darley really want to be where Coolmore have been over the past number of years.

For years Coolmore were constantly criticised for retiring their horses at the end of their 3 year old career. As Coolmore's quality of stallion increased, it reached a level where it was so good, that even with champions that they had, it was in their interest to race on with them. It has worked in their favour with Dylan Thomas and High Chapparal 2 in particular that benefited from. From a breeding perspective I believe that Darley are where Coolmore were at the end of the 90s, but it will have to get to a stage where it is in their interest to race their horses past 3. With the amount of money Darley have invested though, they could reach that stage sooner rather than later..

[Linny]

Everything that Godolphin ran last Sat was "older" including Literato and Creachadoir, both nice horses. I am not sure why they buy US horses and retire them while going on with Euros they buy. Maybe it's because there are more opportunities to stick it to Coolmore while running on grass-HK, Singapore, Australia etc

I don't think that early retirements are "sporting" and agree that they are bad for the game. What I said was "sporting" was putting up $22m for one day of racing, plus bearing the cost of shipping horses and transporting of human connections all over the globe to attend. Factor in payrolls and maintainance etc how much did Saturday cost? Probably 3 or 4 times what a BC costs before worrying about purses. Oh yeah, and BC screws up everything they touch. I wouldn't trust them to ship my luggage, much less my horse! DWC staff moved horses and humans through Dubai last week efficiently. I've spoken to several who were there and other than delays because of construction, things went beautifully.

I see no way to stop Sh. Mo from buying what he wants, other than for owners of horses he wants to say "no." Mrs. Valando did, IEAH did. It can happen. The man is a walking money pit, and most of it comes from real estate, NOT OIL. The price per gallon has little influence on him. His money however is very welcome through the industry.
The breeder with a nice yearling, the pinhooker with a nice 2yo, the owner of a recent maiden winner- they WANT to hear that phone call come in! It is their livelihood. That call can mean a life changing moment. As FANS and/or handicappers, we are not part of this game. While our money fuels it, we're in it but NOT OF IT. Just as the main office of the Yankees doesn't ask the bleacher creatures their opinions on trades, the horseplayers are not a factor in the decision to sell horses.

That post is just disgusting.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Jim, and Gioia too..

While I appreciate your zeal for the DWC and enjoyment of International racing, perpetuating the notion that Sh. Mo in particular is doing good things for racing is utterly ridiculous. He's single-handedly destroying the game by disturbing the sport's competitive balance and effectively trying to simply buy control of it. ...

Kinda stifling in here on this subject, if you don’t toe the line and fall in with the crowd on this issue. You either must subscribe to the idea that Sheik Mo is single-handedly destroying the game, or you’re called out by the host as perpetuating “utterly ridiculous” ideas. Given the number of truly ridiculous ideas put forth on here that is truly an ignoble honor.

I not a shill and don’t agree with everything that is done by Sheik Mo and associates, but some of the arguments put forth against him seem like a stretch and somewhat hypocritical.