Dr. Kevorkian to run for Congress.......

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I promise it won't. I was just curious what he disagrees with.

Well, I think that's pretty obvious, but it's nice of you to give the benefit of the doubt.

Haven't seen that debated here in my relatively short existance on DT so was looking forward to it..I think

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by GBBob

[/b]
Well, I think that's pretty obvious, but it's nice of you to give the benefit of the doubt.

Haven't seen that debated here in my relatively short existance on DT so was looking forward to it, in a weird car crash, rubber necking sort of way

Forcing someone to die an agonizingly slow, painful, miserable death while absolutely hating every minute of the end of their excruciating existence, OR letting someone with a terminal illness which will lead to a slow, painful, miserable death which will cause them to hate every minute of the end of the excruciating existence die with a little bit of peace and dignity.......

Hm, a real nail biter of a tossup there.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Forcing someone to die an agonizingly slow, painful, miserable death while absolutely hating every minute of the end of their excruciating existence, OR letting someone with a terminal illness which will lead to a slow, painful, miserable death which will cause them to hate every minute of the end of the excruciating existence die with a little bit of peace and dignity.......

Hm, a real nail biter of a tossup there.

The argument is whether or not he should be assisting them with it. He's not forcing them to die a slow death... if they want to, they are more than welcome to pull the trigger on their own accord.

Not disagreeing with what you said, but just offering the other side.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

The argument is whether or not he should be assisting them with it. He's not forcing them to die a slow death... if they want to, they are more than welcome to pull the trigger on their own accord.

Not disagreeing with what you said, but just offering the other side.

You apparently overlooked the "peace and dignity" part of my post.

I'm well aware that there are myriad ways for a terminally ill person to kill him or herself.

Pardon the snark, I know you're not being a jerk, but there's a huge difference between helping someone painlessly and peacefully medicate themself to death and asking someone to blow their head off because of their illness. It wouldn't seem exactly proper to invite your family over to spend your last moments with you that way.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

You apparently overlooked the "peace and dignity" part of my post.

I'm well aware that there are myriad ways for a terminally ill person to kill him or herself.

Pardon the snark, I know you're not being a jerk, but there's a huge difference between helping someone painlessly and peacefully medicate themself to death and asking someone to blow their head off because of their illness. It wouldn't seem exactly proper to invite your family over to spend your last moments with you that way.

I said 'pull the trigger', but obviously there are other ways of doing it, many of which would be quick and painless. Some would argue that killing yourself or having someone else kill you (the definition of murder any way you want to look at it) offers neither dignity OR peace.

Like I said, I can see it both ways. I just don't believe it to be as black and white of an issue as you are painting it.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I said 'pull the trigger', but obviously there are other ways of doing it, many of which would be quick and painless. Some would argue that killing yourself or having someone else kill you (the definition of murder any way you want to look at it) offers neither dignity OR peace.

Like I said, I can see it both ways. I just don't believe it to be as black and white of an issue as you are painting it.

While it's obviously not black & white in the most simple sense, it's absolutely black and white in my worldview -- the one where people live and let live.

Don't want to kill yourself? Then don't. But stop telling other people how to live their lives.

Perhaps it's a philosophical divide I can never bridge, but I simply can't see an intellectually honest argument that would be remotely persuasive in trying to say that a mentally capable adult with a terminal disease, with multiple doctors' opinions, who is 100% guaranteed to die a miserable, terrible death worse than any of us could ever imagine, should be denied the right to ask a professional to help them make their death the exact opposite, painless and peaceful.

Unless, of course, forcing people to endure massive, unthinkable, pain is your definition of "peace," and considering that you are a Republican...it very well may be.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Unless, of course, forcing people to endure massive, unthinkable, pain is your definition of "peace," and considering that you are a Republican...it very well may be.

Kind of a low blow, B. As a Christian (this has nothing to do with politics-I wish you'd quit dogging me for being a Republican), I believe that another human being should not assist in the death of another. It's murder. You keep using the word "force", but he's not forcing them to do anything. If a person wants to commit suicide, that is their prerogative, but another person should not be involved in that. JMO.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

While it's obviously not black & white in the most simple sense, it's absolutely black and white in my worldview -- the one where people live and let live.

Don't want to kill yourself? Then don't. But stop telling other people how to live their lives.

Perhaps it's a philosophical divide I can never bridge, but I simply can't see an intellectually honest argument that would be remotely persuasive in trying to say that a mentally capable adult with a terminal disease, with multiple doctors' opinions, who is 100% guaranteed to die a miserable, terrible death worse than any of us could ever imagine, should be denied the right to ask a professional to help them make their death the exact opposite, painless and peaceful.

Unless, of course, forcing people to endure massive, unthinkable, pain is your definition of "peace," and considering that you are a Republican...it very well may be.

I'm neither a republican or a Christian...reducing an argument to it's simplist terms is often beneficial in science...seldom in life. Your attitude that opposition to euthanasia = heartlessness and a desire to see folks suffer is repulsive!

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

The argument is whether or not he should be assisting them with it. He's not forcing them to die a slow death... if they want to, they are more than welcome to pull the trigger on their own accord.

Not disagreeing with what you said, but just offering the other side.

I think the true "other side" is that the means to end your life shouldn't be provided at all, no matter what the circumstances.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I think the true "other side" is that the means to end your life shouldn't be provided at all, no matter what the circumstances.

Never been an advocate of promoting suicide (I had two family members commit suicide), but if someone wants to end their own life, that is their choice IMO.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Never been an advocate of promoting suicide (I had two family members commit suicide), but if someone wants to end their own life, that is their choice IMO.

Unfortunately, been there, done that as well...I'm sorry.
There is a slippery slope that you can get to in a hurry here, but if you limit the conversation to the terms and conditions that Dr K was working under, I think it is a black and white situation. Either you believe you should be able have control of your own mind and body in terminal cases, or you don't.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Unfortunately, been there, done that as well...I'm sorry.
There is a slippery slope that you can get to in a hurry here, but if you limit the conversation to the terms and conditions that Dr K was working under, I think it is a black and white situation. Either you believe you should be able have control of your own mind and body in terminal cases, or you don't.

He may have crossed that line in the case of Youk.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Unfortunately, been there, done that as well...I'm sorry.
There is a slippery slope that you can get to in a hurry here, but if you limit the conversation to the terms and conditions that Dr K was working under, I think it is a black and white situation. Either you believe you should be able have control of your own mind and body in terminal cases, or you don't.

Of course it's not that simple...it never is! It's like abortion, and lets not go down that road again so Mersameg can say I'm not a feminist. Here's the thing, I believe all life is sacred...I oppose abortion, euthanasia, capital punishment, and all other forms of legalized "death by others" (notice I refrain from using the word "murder" to not stoke the fire). Of course the last thing in this world I want is to see ANYBODY suffer! I no longer support reversing Roe, nor do I support any criminalization of suicide. In regards to Roe, it's useless to close the barn door, the horses have long since run away...my objection is the government "legalizing" abortion. Had it been simply "decriminalized" and left to the woman, it wouldn't have had the sociological impact of lessening the value of life. Euthanasia is indeed a "slippery slope"...who decides who has the right to take their life? Does a 16 year old who just broke up with the "love of his/her life?" How about the 19 year old suffering from schizophrenia? The 30 year old who lost a child? The 40 year old struggling through a lifetime of depression? The 50 year old cancer patient? Is pain the criteria? How much pain? Who decides?? If it's the person then that's where free will and consequences for personal behavior come in...but if the government "legalizes" euthanasia then we're one step closer to eating Soilent Green! Do we want to live in a society where "death parlors" are on every corner like McD's? When will folks understand that you can't legislate morality and the government has no right in the private affairs of people? I live by the Rede and it says, "and ye harm none, do what ye will"...so I will never take my own life through any physical act and I'm damn well opposed to others making that decision for me. What you decide is governed by your faith, circumstance, and belief....I am responsible for what I do, and you are likewise...keep the damn government out of it!

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Forcing someone to die an agonizingly slow, painful, miserable death while absolutely hating every minute of the end of their excruciating existence, OR letting someone with a terminal illness which will lead to a slow, painful, miserable death which will cause them to hate every minute of the end of the excruciating existence die with a little bit of peace and dignity.......

Hm, a real nail biter of a tossup there.

Agree one hundred percent.....