CRIST: Changes dilute Cup's appeal

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by 31lengths

I doubt that it is aimed at established fans like us.
I do believe that it is 100% a gimmick to attract new fans (somehow) .
Like they're "spicing" it up somehow....

aim high shoot low

are these mythical new fans going to take a day off to experience their first race?

[Holland Hacker]

Well I WAS considering making the transcontinental trip from NJ to Cali for the '08 Breeders Cup but now I think I'll take a pass. It is absurd that the BC Limited actually thinks this is a "good" idea.

[Cannon Shell]

Racing always misses the boat with their marketing so why would they get it right this time? They simply seem to forget that most racing fans are smarter than the average joe (KRIM as a prime example) especially compared to the average NASCAR fan (sorry cajun) yet they continue to try to dumbdown the game for mass appeal. Racing is complicated and a good part of the allure is the challenge of trying to figure it out. Rather than attempting to identify that type of potential customer (many who would be older than the demographic that they lust after) they give us a supposed championship day disguised as Ladies Night as though it were a happy hour promotion. As opposed to using modern technology like HDtv, they give away t shirts, clocks and waste paper baskets. Rather than ask people who are fans what they think or want, they piss away money listening to some junior exec at a second tier marketing agency.

[King Glorious]

Maybe it's just me but I don't see a single problem with this. We as racing fans were going to watch the races on Friday and Saturday no matter which races were on which days anyway. I see nothing wrong with trying to market things in a different way. Say for example Rags to Riches had finished the year out and ran in the BC but not in the Classic. In all of their marketing and advertising, the BC could tell fans to come out to see all three TC race winners.....only Rags would be in a different race and that race would be overshadowed by the Classic, the race for HOY. Rags would have been reduced to second fiddle. By having her run on the first day, they can basically showcase her. I don't see anything wrong with that. What's so wrong with trying to market two days instead of just one?

[Danzig]

a lot of folks work on fridays. i look forward to the bc, and treat it as a rare afternoon to watch race after race of what's supposed to be the best of the best.
so, what, now i go home and fast forward thru a bunch of filler to get to post time for those races, so i can hurry and watch a days races from friday before bed time?
also, a lot of fans enjoyed seeing that distaff..oh, excuse me, filly and mare classic-why shouldn't it be on the big day? why is it relegated to friday? to an afterthought? or in this case, a prelude to the big day.

so now those people buying those expensive tix to the saturday races, won't be getting what they used to get. i bet they mind!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so now those people buying those expensive tix to the saturday races, won't be getting what they used to get. i bet they mind!

I'm guessing that like the rest of sports that tickets will only be sold for both events, not individually.

[Danzig]

wouldn't surprise me.
a lot of colleges now require season ticket buyers to make a 'donation' to the booster club as well...

i wouldn't want friday tix. that would be when i was travelling to the track....but yeah, no doubt that's what they'll do. twie the fun at twice the price, yippeee.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Maybe it's just me but I don't see a single problem with this. We as racing fans were going to watch the races on Friday and Saturday no matter which races were on which days anyway. I see nothing wrong with trying to market things in a different way. Say for example Rags to Riches had finished the year out and ran in the BC but not in the Classic. In all of their marketing and advertising, the BC could tell fans to come out to see all three TC race winners.....only Rags would be in a different race and that race would be overshadowed by the Classic, the race for HOY. Rags would have been reduced to second fiddle. By having her run on the first day, they can basically showcase her. I don't see anything wrong with that. What's so wrong with trying to market two days instead of just one?

To me, having Rags race on Day 1 (in your scenario) is to make her "second fiddle." Sorry but the biggest race "the day before" doesn't stand equal to the Classic or anyhting on Saturday. The Personal Ensign is run on the Fri before the Travers, does anyone care?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Linny

To me, having Rags race on Day 1 (in your scenario) is to make her "second fiddle." Sorry but the biggest race "the day before" doesn't stand equal to the Classic or anyhting on Saturday. The Personal Ensign is run on the Fri before the Travers, does anyone care?

I hate to break it to everyone but Rags to Riches is not a 'crossover fan' attraction (not crossdressing). Her 15 minutes are up until she does something notble again.

[Linny]

If Rags had gone from the Oaks to the Ma Goose to the Coaching Club to the Alabama to the Beldame and the Distaff and won them all no one but us racing freaks would know her. She's famous for beating the boys. If she stays in the distaff, oops, Ladies division this season she'll be anonymous by October.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hate to break it to everyone but Rags to Riches is not a 'crossover fan' attraction (not crossdressing). Her 15 minutes are up until she does something notble again.

They don't want to hear that. Don't let them know what the attendance figs were like for the Gazelle. They don't want to believe it. To them, she's the Messiah. Or something.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Racing always misses the boat with their marketing so why would they get it right this time? They simply seem to forget that most racing fans are smarter than the average joe ...yet they continue to try to dumbdown the game for mass appeal. Racing is complicated and a good part of the allure is the challenge of trying to figure it out.

I would have agreed with this before observing how racing fans showed very little enthusiasm when presented with the opportunity to bet with a 4% takeout last summer, prefering instead to "figure out" how to beat a 16-20% takeout elsewhere.

--Dunbar

[brockguy]

With so many years of stability in the Breeders Cup, you have just so many changes over the past number of years that it has gotten a bit crazy. I suppose most people are thinking what the hell have they got in store for next year??

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I would have agreed with this before observing how racing fans showed very little enthusiasm when presented with the opportunity to bet with a 4% takeout last summer, prefering instead to "figure out" how to beat a 16-20% takeout elsewhere.

--Dunbar

I couldn't blame anyone for not betting Ellis Park if they offered free bets. Even though a lot of fans read the form and dont really know what they are doing, at least they can read unlike the vast majority of the NASCAR fan base (sorry Cajun and Slotdirt)

[letswastemoney]

If they did that 4% takeout thing at a major circuit track (SA, Hol, Bel, Churchill), I believe it would work. I just don't like Ellis cards because I'm not familiar with the horses or the jockey and trainer patterns.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

If they did that 4% takeout thing at a major circuit track (SA, Hol, Bel, Churchill), I believe it would work. I just don't like Ellis cards because I'm not familiar with the horses or the jockey and trainer patterns.

Exactly. For players that dont follow the circuit, (and Ellis is mostly made up of lower tier KY horses, Indiana horses and Fairmont horses)the takeout is not appealing because they have no clue about what is going on. I'm sure if Saratoga during that time period had the same bet with the same takeout it would have been a big success. Plus for lower takeout to truly be effective it must be in effect for a long period of time.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

If they did that 4% takeout thing at a major circuit track (SA, Hol, Bel, Churchill), I believe it would work. I just don't like Ellis cards because I'm not familiar with the horses or the jockey and trainer patterns.

1. You don't have to be NEARLY as familiar with the local conditions when you are trying to beat a 4% vig compared to trying to beat a 20% vig.

2. Do you think the capping competition at Ellis is as tough as at SA, Hol, Bel, Churchill? Maybe it is, but I doubt it.

3. If horse bettors were so bright, they would have collectively realized that if the 4% Ellis experiment was successful, other tracks would have noticed and tried similar things. Instead, what the other tracks noticed was a 4% takeout that did not bring in nearly enough action to justify the low vig.

Even if you knew nothing about the track, a random Ellis pick 4 costing $100 would have been a $4 investment in the future of the game. Despite the fact that the vast majority of bettors, including those here, are losing far more than 4% of their total bets in the longterm, not many bettors supported the Ellis venture.

--Dunbar

[Payson Dave]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I couldn't blame anyone for not betting Ellis Park if they offered free bets. Even though a lot of fans read the form and dont really know what they are doing, at least they can read unlike the vast majority of the NASCAR fan base (sorry Cajun and Slotdirt)

Cajun is really good at looking at the pictures though

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Payson Dave

Cajun is really good at looking at the pictures though

At Beulah

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

aim high shoot low

are these mythical new fans going to take a day off to experience their first race?

There can only be one reason why it's Fri-sat and not Sat-Sun and that's ESPN. You know ESPN isn't going to sacrifice their NFL primtetime pre-game and everything else they do to show horse racing. I bet the BC would love to do Sat-Sun if allowed to.

And considering everything else they (BC) have done, that's the least of the worries I think.