Clemens: BigFATLIar

[King Glorious]

I find it interesting that people look at Pettitte and say that he's an honest guy and has all of this integrity. The guy is a liar just like the rest of them. When he was taking the stuff, wasn't he cheating? Oh wait, it was supposedly to help him recover. So then he umm, "comes clean" and admits his use. Only he didn't come clean. He admitted part of the truth. Now he admits that he actually used it more than when he said he did when he came clean. Yeah, really honest guy, full of integrity.

[MaTH716]

Listen, I am not one of those people who gets on top of a soapbox to hear themselves talk, but as far as this whole case goes. WHO CARES! Are you telling me that the government doesn't have better things that they can do with their time then to grill people involved with baseball on whether they have done steroids or not. It's baseball's problem and let them try to clean it up. What's next, hearings on if the Patriots really cheated in the super bowl.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Listen, I am not one of those people who gets on top of a soapbox to hear themselves talk, but as far as this whole case goes. WHO CARES! Are you telling me that the government doesn't have better things that they can do with their time then to grill people involved with baseball on whether they have done steroids or not. It's baseball's problem and let them try to clean it up. What's next, hearings on if the Patriots really cheated in the super bowl.

I'm with you. I don't care who used drugs. There is no point at all to this investigation. No matter who they find out used them, they can't do anything to them so what is the point? And the hearings on the Pats is beyond ridiculous. At least with steroids, it involves drugs that were illegal. This videotaping thing was a league rule, not a law. If the commissioner goes in there and says that the Pats videotaped every opponent's practice and secretly installed cameras and taped their private meetings too, what can congress do about that? Absolutely NOTHING. So why is this senator even involving himself? They must really have nothing better to do at all.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'm with you. I don't care who used drugs. There is no point at all to this investigation. No matter who they find out used them, they can't do anything to them so what is the point? And the hearings on the Pats is beyond ridiculous. At least with steroids, it involves drugs that were illegal. This videotaping thing was a league rule, not a law. If the commissioner goes in there and says that the Pats videotaped every opponent's practice and secretly installed cameras and taped their private meetings too, what can congress do about that? Absolutely NOTHING. So why is this senator even involving himself? They must really have nothing better to do at all.

There was no point UNTIL NOW. Some of these idiots lied in sworn testimony. That is perjury. Roger has now made this a point. I am a famous baseball player, I can say what I want to whomever.
frickn idiot...

Once you start to weave a web of lies...
YOU DONT LIE WHEN UNDER SWORN
TESTIMONY. YOU CAN GO TO JAIL.

There is another small point. The federal
government has given these sports a bit
of an antitrust free ride. When commisioners
etc... dont come clean; some congressmen who do
not believe baseball and some other pro sports
should enjoy exemptions that even the great
Microsoft might not get away with... Stupid commisioners
and players should just cooperate.
Then it all goes away. Then they can go directly
to the dealers as the government was trying to do
in the first place. It is a federal law... dealing these drugs.


And one last point. This stupid steriod stuff has cost my
State money as High School athletes have started to
use this stuff. So the state is going to randomly test
athletes in ALL sports. It has trickled down. By stock
in testing companies.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by pgardn

There was no point UNTIL NOW. Some of these idiots lied in sworn testimony. That is perjury. Roger has now made this a point. I am a famous baseball player, I can say what I want to whomever.
frickn idiot...

Once you start to weave a web of lies...
YOU DONT LIE WHEN UNDER SWORN
TESTIMONY. YOU CAN GO TO JAIL.

There is another small point. The federal
government has given these sports a bit
of an antitrust free ride. When commisioners
etc... dont come clean; some congressmen who do
not believe baseball and some other pro sports
should enjoy exemptions that even the great
Microsoft might not get away with... Stupid commisioners
and players should just cooperate.
Then it all goes away. Then they can go directly
to the dealers as the government was trying to do
in the first place. It is a federal law... dealing these drugs.


And one last point. This stupid steriod stuff has cost my
State money as High School athletes have started to
use this stuff. So the state is going to randomly test
athletes in ALL sports. It has trickled down. By stock
in testing companies.

All high school students that play sports must take/pass physicals. That is where they could and should be tested.

Originally Posted by MaTH716

All high school students that play sports must take/pass physicals. That is where they could and should be tested.

They take physicals before school begins
in order to be enrolled in athletic "classes".
They could easily roid it up after that.
Plenty of time before football gets into full swing.
Participants will be tested at random times throughout
the year.

Hopefully all this will go away and
the State will not have to waste
taxpayers money on all this in future years.

BTW it was a Republican Governor
that wanted this done.

[Cannon Shell]

Arod uses Viagra

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Listen, I am not one of those people who gets on top of a soapbox to hear themselves talk, but as far as this whole case goes. WHO CARES! Are you telling me that the government doesn't have better things that they can do with their time then to grill people involved with baseball on whether they have done steroids or not. It's baseball's problem and let them try to clean it up. What's next, hearings on if the Patriots really cheated in the super bowl.

I would say it's really important to do this.We have a huge problem with ethics in this society.The only thing that's valued is money and success(any way you can get it .) This is the reason people are so quick to dismiss the actions of people who cheated to beat people in their chosen profession.Do you like being cheated? Well anyone trying to compete(without taking these drugs) with these guys was cheated.Hank Aaron lost his record to somebody who cheated.Now,you're saying the Congress shouldn't investigate it.I would say if these guys were gunna get properly punished,then the Congress wouldn't have to even be involved.Look at all the Conservative guys yesterday in Congress trying to help out this cheater.That's pathetic.Trying to find a way to help out a Conservative cheater from TEXAS.Well,they can step in the same poo he is in.Go right ahead.The one thing I know is that, by their very nature ,lies breed like rabbits doing speed.It's just the way it is.It's easy to remember the truth.It's hard to keep telling a pack of lies the same way.You would think it would be easy.It isn't .What's easy is telling it the 1st time.This is why they keep asking people to tell the same lies again.They keep asking them something a lil different each time,and he then will have to tell one more lie.Think about it.He is to the point where his story is that Andy Petitte is remembering incorrectly about whether Rocket told him he did this stuff.O.K.? That's how pathetic Rodger's lies are.Do you really think Andy misunderstood,and it was only Clemens wife on the HGH? Really? You think Andy would interpret that conversation incorrectly? This is what happens though.He should of admitted it like the others. Truth is easily remembered.We are much better at remembering it than we are lies.It's a different kind of memory,and that's why they ask you to repeat stories.You tell them in a totally different way when it's fiction.It will be slower,and you will be much grumpier doing it(because the brain has to work harder to remember the details of simple fiction.) One is just more work than the other.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I would say it's really important to do this.We have a huge problem with ethics in this society.The only thing that's valued is money and success(any way you can get it .) This is the reason people are so quick to dismiss the actions of people who cheated to beat people in their chosen profession.Do you like being cheated? Well anyone trying to compete(without taking these drugs) with these guys was cheated.Hank Aaron lost his record to somebody who cheated.Now,you're saying the Congress shouldn't investigate it.I would say if these guys were gunna get properly punished,then the Congress wouldn't have to even be involved.Look at all the Conservative guys yesterday in Congress trying to help out this cheater.That's pathetic.Trying to find a way to help out a Conservative cheater from TEXAS.Well,they can step in the same poo he is in.Go right ahead.The one thing I know is that, by their very nature ,lies breed like rabbits doing speed.It's just the way it is.It's easy to remember the truth.It's hard to keep telling a pack of lies the same way.You would think it would be easy.It isn't .What's easy is telling it the 1st time.This is why they keep asking people to tell the same lies again.They keep asking them something a lil different each time,and he then will have to tell one more lie.Think about it.He is to the point where his story is that Andy Petitte is remembering incorrectly about whether Rocket told him he did this stuff.O.K.? That's how pathetic Rodger's lies are.Do you really think Andy misunderstood,and it was only Clemens wife on the HGH? Really? You think Andy would interpret that conversation incorrectly? This is what happens though.He should of admitted it like the others. Truth is easily remembered.We are much better at remembering it than we are lies.It's a different kind of memory,and that's why they ask you to repeat stories.You tell them in a totally different way when it's fiction.It will be slower,and you will be much grumpier doing it(because the brain has to work harder to remember the details of simple fiction.) One is just more work than the other.

If they aren't going to do anything about it, why is it important to do this? Right now, half the people believe Clemens did and half believe he didn't. If it comes out that he did, what will be gained? All that I can see gained is that the half that didn't believe he did anything will say "oh, I guess I was wrong". That's it. He won't be punished. Nothing will be gained by the public. If people that are chosen by the public to do services for the public are wasting time and money on this when there are SOOOOOOO many other things that are more important than whether or not a grown man took some drugs to improve himself in a sport, that's a bigger problem in my eyes than what that man did.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If they aren't going to do anything about it, why is it important to do this? Right now, half the people believe Clemens did and half believe he didn't. If it comes out that he did, what will be gained? All that I can see gained is that the half that didn't believe he did anything will say "oh, I guess I was wrong". That's it. He won't be punished. Nothing will be gained by the public. If people that are chosen by the public to do services for the public are wasting time and money on this when there are SOOOOOOO many other things that are more important than whether or not a grown man took some drugs to improve himself in a sport, that's a bigger problem in my eyes than what that man did.

Actually I think it is around 70% that believe Roger did as opposed to 30% that don't believe he did. The fact is if the guy lied it is perjury and if any future Congressional hearings are going to have any teeth they have to go after him for it.

There are plenty of other things they could be doing with their time but the majority of them are on issues so divided along party lines that nothing will actually be accomplished with the time spent on that. And even if they accomplish something Bush can just step in and veto it. At least in this they are making some progress. It's a big waste of time no doubt but not as big a waste of time as most of what they normally waste their time on.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Actually I think it is around 70% that believe Roger did as opposed to 30% that don't believe he did. The fact is if the guy lied it is perjury and if any future Congressional hearings are going to have any teeth they have to go after him for it.

There are plenty of other things they could be doing with their time but the majority of them are on issues so divided along party lines that nothing will actually be accomplished with the time spent on that. And even if they accomplish something Bush can just step in and veto it. At least in this they are making some progress. It's a big waste of time no doubt but not as big a waste of time as most of what they normally waste their time on.

Whether he perjured himself is beside the point, IMO. I don't think he should have been up before congress on this issue to even have a chance to perjure himself. This is not a congressional issue. If this was something where they could say that everyone that is found to have used it will go to jail or be banned from the game, then that would be something different. But if every single person mentioned in the Mitchell report came out and said "yes, I did it"..........then what? Nothing. So I don't see the point of the report or the point of the hearings. The report just told us what half of us believed already.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Whether he perjured himself is beside the point, IMO. I don't think he should have been up before congress on this issue to even have a chance to perjure himself. This is not a congressional issue. If this was something where they could say that everyone that is found to have used it will go to jail or be banned from the game, then that would be something different. But if every single person mentioned in the Mitchell report came out and said "yes, I did it"..........then what? Nothing. So I don't see the point of the report or the point of the hearings. The report just told us what half of us believed already.

Whether or not they should have been looking into it in the first place is besides the point. If the guy committed perjury you have to enforce it. If you are arrested for a crime you didn't commit and then kill the officer arresting you to escape does that make it ok because you shouldn't have been arrested in the first place? Obviously that is an extreme scenario but you get my point, if you commit a crime it isn't suddenly erased because maybe you shouldn't have been in that position in the first place.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If they aren't going to do anything about it, why is it important to do this? Right now, half the people believe Clemens did and half believe he didn't. If it comes out that he did, what will be gained? All that I can see gained is that the half that didn't believe he did anything will say "oh, I guess I was wrong". That's it. He won't be punished. Nothing will be gained by the public. If people that are chosen by the public to do services for the public are wasting time and money on this when there are SOOOOOOO many other things that are more important than whether or not a grown man took some drugs to improve himself in a sport, that's a bigger problem in my eyes than what that man did.

There isn't as much as you think(that they can do.) When you got Geedubbya ready to veto anything left of Attilla,then it's a pretty useless situation.They are pretty much treading water until this idiot is gone.I go back to the fact that they broke the law,and aren't being punished for it.So,you should be asking why they aren't being punished for it.If they were being properly punished,then they wouldn't be having hearings.This is a case of overlooking what the rich and powerful did wrong.You're angry it's ending up here,but it's ending up here because others won't punish them in the regular way.That hypocrisy may just end up costing Clemons a lot more than simply using steroids or HGH.He has perjured himself,and now is to the point of talking about "breaking his spirit." I mean he is willing to lie as much as it takes to protect his family from the stigma of him being a cheater.Rich n' powerful think they can do just about anything they want,but we have seen that perjury is not taken lightly.Hard to believe a lawyer didn't try to keep him from stepping into this,but I guess this is how stubborn he is.

[King Glorious]

I don't think we are that far off on this. They should have been punished by baseball. But they weren't. If they could be punished by congress, I would be ok with this. But they can't. So since they can't, why bother?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't think we are that far off on this. They should have been punished by baseball. But they weren't. If they could be punished by congress, I would be ok with this. But they can't. So since they can't, why bother?

Whether or not the Mitchell report was necessary or a big waste of time is up for debate. But once the Mitchell report was out and there were people publicly saying the allegations were false they had to investigate into it or risk the whole report being thrown under a black cloud. I did find it interesting though that David Justice also denied the allegations of the Mitchell report, was personally involved with McNamee, and yet wasn't required to testify. Shouldn't he have been pulled into it too if Clemens was?