Some Saturday Beyer Figures

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Winning the Met Mile is more prestigious and better on the resume than the Arlington Million, IMO.

If they had an Eclipse for milers in this country and you have two main contenders with the following wins:

A
Met Mile
BC Dirt Mile
Cigar Mile

B
Kilroe Mile
Shadwell Mile
BC Mile

Which do you think would be favored to win the award? I think that in a case like Nobiz, they aren't going to look at purse as much as which races could lead them to a championship. When you have millions and all of your friends have millions, having a champion might mean a little more than a horse that earns $1 million.

The Met Mile is still worth over $500,000. I can't really think of a race for older males that is $500,000 plus and isn't very prestigious. It isn't like the 2yo and 3yo divisions where the joke tracks throw huge purses out for crappy races.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The Met Mile is still worth over $500,000. I can't really think of a race for older males that is $500,000 plus and isn't very prestigious. It isn't like the 2yo and 3yo divisions where the joke tracks throw huge purses out for crappy races.

What about the Hawthorne Gold Cup? The Meadowlands Cup? The Oaklawn Hcp has lost most of it's luster. I don't think of prestige when I think of the New Orleans Hcp. The Mass Cap? The SA Hcp is nowhere near what it used to be and this year's field will be further proof of that.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

What about the Hawthorne Gold Cup? The Meadowlands Cup? The Oaklawn Hcp has lost most of it's luster. I don't think of prestige when I think of the New Orleans Hcp. The Mass Cap? The SA Hcp is nowhere near what it used to be and this year's field will be further proof of that.

Yes, but other than them.

Hawthorne and the Meadowlands Cup may be $400K.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

What about the Hawthorne Gold Cup? The Meadowlands Cup? The Oaklawn Hcp has lost most of it's luster. I don't think of prestige when I think of the New Orleans Hcp. The Mass Cap? The SA Hcp is nowhere near what it used to be and this year's field will be further proof of that.

Hawthorne Gold Cup is a good example. The others are $500,000 and there aren't a ton of races being run for less than them that are that much more prestigious. There is certainly more money to be won on the dirt but you can also find some nice purses in races like the Arlington Million on turf that are also prestigious that you could easily campaign Showing Up and Nobiz completely in races for $500,000+ and simultaneously be running in the most prestigious races. I just don't see the point in running in races like the Manhattan Handicap for $400,000 when you could run in the Hollywood Gold Cup for $750,000 and be running in what is probably a more prestigious race.

[blackthroatedwind]

A lot of people prefer not to ship and Mrs. Valando might be happier winning a Grade 1 on the Belmont Stakes undercard than the Hollywood Gold Cup.

I might be wrong, but I think other than accomplishing something unusual, NoBiz has already kind of established his market value. A win in either race you are discussing isn't going to change that. He would have to win races like the Whitney, Woodward, Jockey Club Gold Cup and, maybe, the BC Polytrack Classic, to seriously change that. And even then I don't know how sexy he will ever be.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

A lot of people prefer not to ship and Mrs. Valando might be happier winning a Grade 1 on the Belmont Stakes undercard than the Hollywood Gold Cup.

I might be wrong, but I think other than accomplishing something unusual, NoBiz has already kind of established his market value. A win in either race you are discussing isn't going to change that. He would have to win races like the Whitney, Woodward, Jockey Club Gold Cup and, maybe, the BC Polytrack Classic, to seriously change that. And even then I don't know how sexy he will ever be.

I guess that is why I'd like to see them have some fun with it. Seek out the best races and don't worry about surfaces.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I guess that is why I'd like to see them have some fun with it. Seek out the best races and don't worry about surfaces.

Seeking out what's in the best interests of the horse, which may or may not be shipping back and forth across the country, also comes into play. However, I would bet my last dollar that the owner of NoBiz couldn't possibly care less about winning a " big " race in California.

Trainers don't usually like to switch back and forth between surfaces, and when it is someone like Shug saying this, and not lessers, I tend to take it at face value. Barcley Tagg runs his horses, and wants to win, and I think in this case it's pretty fair to trust his judgement. I'm reasonably sure he hasn't ruled out running NoBiz on the dirt again. He's no fool.....he knows who's out there.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Seeking out what's in the best interests of the horse, which may or may not be shipping back and forth across the country, also comes into play. However, I would bet my last dollar that the owner of NoBiz couldn't possibly care less about winning a " big " race in California.

Trainers don't usually like to switch back and forth between surfaces, and when it is someone like Shug saying this, and not lessers, I tend to take it at face value. Barcley Tagg runs his horses, and wants to win, and I think in this case it's pretty fair to trust his judgement. I'm reasonably sure he hasn't ruled out running NoBiz on the dirt again. He's no fool.....he knows who's out there.

I know Farish is the same way. They could run the Goodwood for $10 million and the JCGC for $10 and he'd rather win in NY. They could run a grade one for free at Saratoga and the Phipps would rather win that then the Delaware Hcp. With Nobiz, I at least like the fact that they will ship, as evidenced by him coming out for the Hollywood Derby but I would agree with you that if it came down to chosing between a big one in Cali and a smaller one in NY, they will be in NY.

I agree with you that shipping back and forth across the country is probably not a good thing and for most horses, switching back and forth between surfaces probably isn't going to work either. Lava Man was one that it worked for. I believe that there are surely some others that could do it if given the opportunity. Barbaro is another recent example. I think that most trainers just tend to play it safe and stick with what's proven to work and there's nothing wrong with that.

Getting back to Nobiz, I am reminded that I read that when he was running on dirt, he did run down pretty bad. If that's still an issue, then I could see shelving any plans to return to the dirt. But if it's at all possible, then I agree that Tagg almost HAS to consider it based on what's out there.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

And even then I don't know how sexy he will ever be.

This is one gorgeous horse but you are right his pedigree isn't fashionable and when he stands he won't have a atypical fantastic book of mares. If he makes it it will be because he EARNED IT as a stallion.

I will say he is a nice as looking horse as you will find.