Denman or Kauto Star?

[brockguy]

I could talk all day about these two.. Denman just looks like a special horse, but to be honest, he has yet to beat anything of significant note.. While Denman's Hennessy was brilliant, Kauto's King George was better, I just couldnt believe how easily he went to the front.

Talk in the racingpost about Denman breaking Ollie Magern's heart is a bit dramatic and OTT. He lost by pretty much the same distance Kauto beat him in the Betfair and they let him do whatever he wanted.

One thing for sure is that it will be a great Gold Cup. I just hope that we dont get a really cut up field. Plus I hope Nicholls put Neptune Collonges in as I feel he is well worth his line up in the field..

[Hwjb]

First of all, talk of a two-horse Gold Cup is premature - a peak-form Exotic Dancer isn't out of things.

Obviously it's difficult not to have been impressed with Denman. They say horse's aren't machines, but surely he's as close to any horse that is. Just programme him to gallop and he won't stop. He'll have to grind Kauto Star down, though, because Kauto will be far too quick for Denman otherwise. Kauto Star has proven himself the best horse since Desert Orchid, whereas Denman still has around 8 lb to find. It's tempting to imagine that he'll only do this if the ground comes up testing at Cheltenham. The fact that the race was steadily-run last year adds substance to what the patiently ridden Kauto Star (and, more so, Exotic Dancer) achieved, but it does mean that he remains unproven over a really testing three and a quarter miles. I remain convinced that it won't prove a problem for him which, added to the fact that his jumping is ever-increasingly less of a concern, makes Kauto Star the more likely winner in my mind.

[NoChanceToDance]

See, I'm not convinced that Denman is this slow galloper that everyone is suggesting he might be and that Kauto will have too much toe for him.

Forgive me if what I was told is wrong, but wasn't his win at Newbury the other day faster than Kauto's King George win?

I just feel that Denman's form this year is stronger than that of Kauto Star.

I'm probably being a little biased because Denman is THE horse in my opinion.

[Hwjb]

Two things. First, Denman met his only defeat in a Royal and SunAlliance Hurdle in which the emphasis was too much on speed. Nicholls has since said that they didn't ride him positively enough and, for all he stayed on really well, he was never quite able to get Nicanor off the bridle. Second, surely it's unimaginable to think that Denman couldd have replicated his stablemate and won a Tingle Creek in the devastating style of Kauto Star.

It's true that Denman's Aon win was achieved in a quicker time (6.03.95) to Kauto Star's King George (6.09.35), but you can't go round comparing times from different tracks just because they're run at the same trip. The Racing Post standard at Nebury is 5.50, compared with 6mins at Kempton. Time comparisons are only ever of any real use when compared with races on the same card at the same trip, and, as you would expect, the time performance of the King George was in a different league to that of the Feltham, whilst on form Kauto's imperious win was the best seen in the race since Desert Orchid, surpassing those of One Man, See More Business and Kicking King.

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by Hwjb

Two things. First, Denman met his only defeat in a Royal and SunAlliance Hurdle in which the emphasis was too much on speed. Nicholls has since said that they didn't ride him positively enough and, for all he stayed on really well, he was never quite able to get Nicanor off the bridle. Second, surely it's unimaginable to think that Denman couldd have replicated his stablemate and won a Tingle Creek in the devastating style of Kauto Star.

It's true that Denman's Aon win was achieved in a quicker time (6.03.95) to Kauto Star's King George (6.09.35), but you can't go round comparing times from different tracks just because they're run at the same trip. The Racing Post standard at Nebury is 5.50, compared with 6mins at Kempton. Time comparisons are only ever of any real use when compared with races on the same card at the same trip, and, as you would expect, the time performance of the King George was in a different league to that of the Feltham, whilst on form Kauto's imperious win was the best seen in the race since Desert Orchid, surpassing those of One Man, See More Business and Kicking King.

While I am a newbie on this scene, when I was at Kempton for the King George, I absolutly fell in love with Kauto Star. His win was so impressive.

I also fell in love with Straw Bear, but I hear he bleeds. They should send him across the pond and let him clean up over here.

I love reading this part of the DT Forum now, and keeping up with the UK racing.

[my miss storm cat]

I'm going to be stubborn here and hope that the gallant win by The Listener puts to rest the whole it's-not-the-right-distance argument.

Oh yes he can!

The original question..... I'd say Kauto Star but my opinion is based on emotion and not knowledge.

[my miss storm cat]

For his fans, from RP.....

Straw Bear heads straight to Cheltenham without run

by Keith Hamer

STRAW BEAR will go straightto the Smurfit Kappa Champion Hurdle without another run.

Connections made the decision after the JP McManus-owned seven-year-old had a workout on Wednesday.

That means Straw Bear, a 20-1 shot for Champion honours at Cheltenham on March 11, will miss Saturday's Bathwick Tyres Kingwell Hurdle at Wincanton.
"He's not running at Wincanton. He's going to go straight for the Champion Hurdle," said trainer Nick Gifford.

"He had a breeze this morning and I've spoken to Frank Berry (the owner's racing manager) and we've decided we're going straight to Cheltenham. The horse is in good form."