No prying eyes at a private training center

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What do you think about Private Training Centers Chuck? I've always wondered. I mean, obviously if racetracks had real tests, for the real problems, instead of skirting the issue ( as you pointed out in your other thread ), it wouldn't matter where the horses were trained.

I guess the answer is that, unlike a racetrack, nobody can raid your barn.

The day is coming where more of the top horses are trained away from the tracks over which they run. As that has been accepted, more trainers will move to private training centers that allow them unlimited stall space, freedom to race whereever and whenever they desire without the racetrack putting any pressure on, and being free of any security measures that are taken at the track. It is also can be an anti-suspension device as the authorities can prevent you from training at racetracks but they can not keep you from training at private property though the horses would have to run in someone elses name. Pletcher has most of his best horses at Palm Beach Downs which is a private training center, Dale Romans just bought a place in KY, Nafzger and Ian Wilkes train a lot of their horses off track as does Niall O'Callaghan and many of the guys at Fair Hill like Matz, Klesaris and Shuman. Now I suppose that owning a barn at a place like Fair Hill is different than owning your own land but either way the tracks have lost control over their horse populations and as this trend continues, it will only get worse.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The day is coming where more of the top horses are trained away from the tracks over which they run. As that has been accepted, more trainers will move to private training centers that allow them unlimited stall space, freedom to race whereever and whenever they desire without the racetrack putting any pressure on, and being free of any security measures that are taken at the track. It is also can be an anti-suspension device as the authorities can prevent you from training at racetracks but they can not keep you from training at private property though the horses would have to run in someone elses name. Pletcher has most of his best horses at Palm Beach Downs which is a private training center, Dale Romans just bought a place in KY, Nafzger and Ian Wilkes train a lot of their horses off track as does Niall O'Callaghan and many of the guys at Fair Hill like Matz, Klesaris and Shuman. Now I suppose that owning a barn at a place like Fair Hill is different than owning your own land but either way the tracks have lost control over their horse populations and as this trend continues, it will only get worse.

Wasn't Patrick stabled in a private place in Saratoga for many, if not all, the years he was there? Didn't he use the Payson barns.....or is that considered part of the Oklahoma?

The point about racetracks losing control is an interesting one. But, let's face it, they've already lost control, pretty much, at least with Pletcher. He's pretty much used NYRA barns, be it Belmont or the Oklahoma from April through October, as his headquarters to ship wherever he wants. I guess he can do whatever's best for his owners and one could say it's NYRA's responsibility to control that. IMO they haven't protected their interests as well as they could, or should, have. But, I'm sure there's more to the story.

On a tangent, seems to me we're seeing a real fallout at Gulfstream from the lack of talent, or even runners, in Todd's current 3YOs. Considering the vast number of horses he got, and the dearth of actual runners, 3YO races have been very thin, and not even filling ( which is incredible for Gulfstream ). It's a scary glimpse into what can happen when one person gets a lions share of the potential runners.....and for whatever reasons they can't, and don't, run.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The day is coming where more of the top horses are trained away from the tracks over which they run. As that has been accepted, more trainers will move to private training centers that allow them unlimited stall space, freedom to race whereever and whenever they desire without the racetrack putting any pressure on, and being free of any security measures that are taken at the track. It is also can be an anti-suspension device as the authorities can prevent you from training at racetracks but they can not keep you from training at private property though the horses would have to run in someone elses name. Pletcher has most of his best horses at Palm Beach Downs which is a private training center, Dale Romans just bought a place in KY, Nafzger and Ian Wilkes train a lot of their horses off track as does Niall O'Callaghan and many of the guys at Fair Hill like Matz, Klesaris and Shuman. Now I suppose that owning a barn at a place like Fair Hill is different than owning your own land but either way the tracks have lost control over their horse populations and as this trend continues, it will only get worse.

I was just talking to Dave about Payson Park (Indiantown, FL.) Apparently, Court Vision has been stabled there and I wondered if it was difficult for the public to get in to see the workouts, etc. I can't blame anyone for wanting their horses away from the track... it seems like it would be a quieter environment and therefore better for high-strung thoroughbreds.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I was just talking to Dave about Payson Park (Indiantown, FL.) Apparently, Court Vision has been stabled there and I wondered if it was difficult for the public to get in to see the workouts, etc. I can't blame anyone for wanting their horses away from the track... it seems like it would be a quieter environment and therefore better for high-strung thoroughbreds.

Why should the " public " be allowed on any backstretch....be it a racetrack or not?

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Why should the " public " be allowed on any backstretch....be it a racetrack or not?

She's probably talking about the morning workouts. It's got to be stressful for the horsies to workout in front of thousands of people.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

She's probably talking about the morning workouts. It's got to be stressful for the horsies to workout in front of thousands of people.

Where does this happen.....and why, pray tell, would that be stressful?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Where does this happen.....and why, pray tell, would that be stressful?

The Oklahoma training track at Toga was pretty busy in the mornings. I've never been at any other track early in the mornings, so I'm only comparing to that one, but one would think that a quieter environment in the mornings would be less stressful for young horses.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Where does this happen.....and why, pray tell, would that be stressful?

In dreams. Because people suck.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

She's probably talking about the morning workouts. It's got to be stressful for the horsies to workout in front of thousands of people.

Yes, I was talking about the morning workouts.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Yes, I was talking about the morning workouts.

There's a handfull of people at the morning works. Maybe Saratoga has a few hundred people....but how that affects the horses in some negative way is beyond me.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Yes, I was talking about the morning workouts.

There's a handfull of people at the morning works. Maybe Saratoga has a few hundred people....but how that affects the horses in some negative way is beyond me.

I guess having less horses around might be considered better. I wouldn't know for sure.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

There's a handfull of people at the morning works. Maybe Saratoga has a few hundred people....but how that affects the horses in some negative way is beyond me.

I guess having less horses around might be considered better. I wouldn't know for sure.

It probably depends on the horse and how they react to other horses in close proximity. I have no clue.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Why should the " public " be allowed on any backstretch....be it a racetrack or not?

Why shouldn't they?

This is a sport that ought to embrace every single fan friendly thing possible. I'm not just talking about backstretch tours either - if people want to go back there, let the backstretch security ask their reasons - and if it's anything within reason by all means let them observe.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Why shouldn't they?

This is a sport that ought to embrace every single fan friendly thing possible. I'm not just talking about backstretch tours either - if people want to go back there, let the backstretch security ask their reasons - and if it's anything within reason by all means let them observe.

You are kidding....right?

There are millions of dollars worth of horseflesh on backstretches. Allowing unapproved people random access to this is potentially dangerous on many levels. Aside from the overtly obvious, these horses are also racing in betting events, and allowing the entire population access to them opens up the possibility of chicanery.

I'm all for genuine fans being properly escorted around the backstretch in the morning. However, if this isn't carefully controlled in could be a real problem. I know if I owned a lot of expensive horseflesh I wouldn't want every random person to be allowed near them in their barns.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I think you are being a little naive.

If anyone really wanted to do any real "chicanery" - the current security that is in place would NEVER be enough to stop them.

I'm not saying get rid of all security - in fact, anyone who wants back there should have to first talk with a security guard.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think you are being a little naive.

If anyone really wanted to do any real "chicanery" - the current security that is in place would NEVER be enough to stop them.

I'm not saying get rid of all security - in fact, anyone who wants back there should have to first talk with a security guard.

I'm not being naive, and I understand what you're saying, but I still don't believe the public should be allowed unfettered access to the backstretch. It's a place of business, where the participants are prepared for the public part of the business.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I know if I owned a lot of expensive horseflesh I wouldn't want every random person to be allowed near them in their barns.

Neither would I.