CushionTrack: "We'll fix or replace SA surface"

[SniperSB23]

Any track where In Summation can beat Idiot Proof is certainly nothing like dirt.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Any track where In Summation can beat Idiot Proof is certainly nothing like dirt.

what is the excuse for Idiot Proof getting beat by Barbeque Eddie? I don't think its the surface because he beat Barbeque Eddie on the same surface in the Ancient Title.

[Rootdog1]

Agreed...Idiot Proof is a paper tiger.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

what is the excuse for Idiot Proof getting beat by Barbeque Eddie? I don't think its the surface because he beat Barbeque Eddie on the same surface in the Ancient Title.

There is no doubt that Idiot Proof isn't the same horse on the synthetics that he is on the dirt and that horses like In Summation who busted out on the dirt and had to go the turf are now moving up big time cause of the synthetic surfaces. You aren't going to tell me a horse that just ran 2nd in the BC Sprint as a 3yo should be losing to the likes of In Summation and Barbeque Eddie on a surface that is a dirt replacement, are you?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There is no doubt that Idiot Proof isn't the same horse on the synthetics that he is on the dirt and that horses like In Summation who busted out on the dirt and had to go the turf are now moving up big time cause of the synthetic surfaces. You aren't going to tell me a horse that just ran 2nd in the BC Sprint as a 3yo should be losing to the likes of In Summation and Barbeque Eddie on a surface that is a dirt replacement, are you?

i don't think Proof was 100% cranked here, the race set up extremely well for In Summation. Idiot Proof has won a graded stakes over a synethic, I think, it was at Hollywood

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Scav

i don't think Proof was 100% cranked here, the race set up extremely well for In Summation. Idiot Proof has won a graded stakes over a synethic, I think, it was at Hollywood

Santa Anita, the Ancient Title over Greg's Gold and the immortal BBQ Eddie. I'm not saying the horse can't run on synthetics at all. All I'm saying is the gap between him and In Summation and BBQ is nothing on the cushion and would be open lengths on the dirt.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Scav

i don't think Proof was 100% cranked here, the race set up extremely well for In Summation. Idiot Proof has won a graded stakes over a synethic, I think, it was at Hollywood

I don't know if it was that he wasn't cranked up. He probably just didn't come out of the BC Sprint very well. When you run on a sloppy, sealed track like that, there is probably only a 50% chance at best that you will come out of the race without some type of minor injury. When you run your horse in the slop, you are basically playing russian roulette.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

There is no doubt that Idiot Proof isn't the same horse on the synthetics that he is on the dirt and that horses like In Summation who busted out on the dirt and had to go the turf are now moving up big time cause of the synthetic surfaces. You aren't going to tell me a horse that just ran 2nd in the BC Sprint as a 3yo should be losing to the likes of In Summation and Barbeque Eddie on a surface that is a dirt replacement, are you?

Idiot Proof is over rated. He has two wins on synthetic and 3 on dirt.
I just don't see where he should be rated as some kind of dirt monster brought low by the surface. Maybe he isn't as good on synthetic as dirt, so what?

In Summation is more of a bust on turf, not dirt. His turf record is 6 starts, 1 win, 3 places. His dirt record is 9 starts, 4 wins, 1 place. His synthetic record is 4 starts, 3 wins, 1 place. He is actually shown to be quite versatile on any surface.

The BC sprint is a toss in my mind, and not indicative of much. Midnite Lute has also confirmed that.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Idiot Proof is over rated. He has two wins on synthetic and 3 on dirt.
I just don't see where he should be rated as some kind of dirt monster brought low by the surface. Maybe he isn't as good on synthetic as dirt, so what?

In Summation is more of a bust on turf, not dirt. His turf record is 6 starts, 1 win, 3 places. His dirt record is 9 starts, 4 wins, 1 place. His synthetic record is 4 starts, 3 wins, 1 place. He is actually shown to be quite versatile on any surface.

The BC sprint is a toss in my mind, and not indicative of much. Midnite Lute has also confirmed that.

Idiot Proof has a monster win at Monmouth in what I think was a track record and then a second in the BC Sprint. You could argue he is a horse for the course at Monmouth but there is no way you can claim he isn't very talented on the dirt and has run his two best races by far on it.

I don't have In Summation's PPs in front of me but from what I remember those early dirt wins were over statebred 2yos. Once he used up his conditions he was no longer able to compete on the dirt but could on the turf before he really found his home on the synthetics.

Midnight Lute losing to Daaher at a mile is indicative that the BC Sprint is a toss? Are we watching the same sport?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Midnight Lute losing to Daaher at a mile is indicative that the BC Sprint is a toss? Are we watching the same sport?

apparently not.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Midnight Lute confirmed the sprint is a throwout by running second in the Cigar Mile to Daaher? Am I reading this right? I don't get it.

Midnight Lute is another horse who probably did not come out of the race 100%. He didn't look like the same horse in the Cigar Mile. His BC sprint win was certainly no fluke. That was not the first time he ran a race like that. He ran just as huge in the Forego.

I'm telling you, when you run in the slop you are very lucky if you come out of the race in one piece.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Midnight Lute is another horse who probably did not come out of the race 100%. He didn't look like the same horse in the Cigar Mile. His BC sprint win was certainly no fluke. That was not the first time he ran a race like that. He ran just as huge in the Forego.

I'm telling you, when you run in the slop you are very lucky if you come out of the race in one piece.

The voice of reason.

A well constructed synthetic track like Keeneland can handle rain and eliminate the slop factor. They proved it last meet. The week of the BC at Monmouth, Keeneland was deluged for two days and the track was as good as if it had never rained.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cardus

How did the Cushion Track installer and Magna not consider SoCal's January and February typical rainfall when figuring the synthetic composition?

This is mind boggling.

They did consider it. The Cusion Track at Hollywood Park drains beautifully. It can rain an inch and you can't even tell that it rained. The track looks perfect. They put in a very similar drainage system at Santa Anita. The problem is that they used a slightly different type of composition for the surface and that is what has caused the problems. They used a different type of sand and some of the other ingredients were slightly different.

They obviously did not do proper testing or they would have realized that the composition they planned to install does not drain properly.

[Riot]

They obviously did not do proper testing or they would have realized that the composition they planned to install does not drain properly

Thus it amazes me that the manufacturer didn't install a furlong of it, water the hell out of it, and see what happened (as Keeneland did during their installation of Polytrack).

[Riot]

If gamblers were gone, there would still be horse racing. It would just be markedly privatized back into a hobby of the wealthy. Associations of wealthy owners would own a few tracks, they would still breed, sell and race (albeit on a much smaller scale). Employed trainers would be those few working for private farms and private racing stables, rather than public. Purses would be funded by entry fees and subscription from patrons.

If slots were still allowed, however, we might still have Mountaineer running year-round.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Thanks for answering.

Obviously, I don't live in SoCal, but I know that I've seen -- everyone who follows racing has seen -- mudslide proportion rainfall in January and February, as opposed to November, when Hollywood runs.

Good luck with your stable.

they were originally trying to find a way to deal with the 110 degree heat, not a drainage problem...then the finer sand that they went with to try to deal with the heat created the drainage issue. so now they're back to square one, they created a problem by trying to eliminate a different problem. once the drainage is taken care of, will they have a proper mix to deal with the heat they will encounter?

[my miss storm cat]

I really have nothing to add here but i thought I'd post this anyway.

Not defending Idiot Proof.... I like him although he wasn't my pick for this race.

For the sake of fairness, and since this race was discussed, this is from SA barn notes.....

http://www.santaanita.com/news/sn.ph...january3rd2008


Idiot Proof was not himself after finishing third as the 3-5 favorite in Tuesday’s El Conejo Handicap. “He was sick that night,” trainer Cliff Sise Jr. said Thursday morning. “After he cooled out, he laid down in his stall for like a half an hour, which he’s never done. He wouldn’t touch his feed and his temperature was 1:01.4, so I had a vet come and treat him. The horse was a little gassy, but a few hours later, he was OK and he acted good yesterday morning, but something upset his stomach the day of the race. He just wasn’t right.” .

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cardus

How did the Cushion Track installer and Magna not consider SoCal's January and February typical rainfall when figuring the synthetic composition?

This is mind boggling.

for some reason they used more sand, and it clogged up the drainage system.
pretty dumb that they weren't more careful.