Three New BC Races

[Cannon Shell]

Maybe I am being naive but why the all personal anomisity toward the Breeders Cup? I understand what many of you are saying but the fact is the ship has sailed on mny of these subjects like the over focus on the Breeders Cup to the detriment of some traditional races. It is like bitching about the DH in baseball or 3 point line in basketball.

As an owner/trainer I can say that it is hard not to appreciate the addition of a turf sprint or 2 year old filly turf race. I'm sure many of you would think the same if you owned a horse that might possibly be good enough to compete in one of these new races.

As discussed in another far too long thread I can't see why anyone would bitch about the purses for these races being too big or the fact that the fields will be weak or not up to BC quality. There are tons of races that come up weak or with short fields throughout the year that no one call for the removal of. For instance most graded non turf races run in California.

The philosophical reasons behind the complaints are baffling to me. So what if we have a turf sprint champion? Or a 2 year old turf champion. Or a champion miler? What difference does it make to your bankroll or enjoyment of the game? I personally thought Matt Holiday should have been the NL MVP but he when Rollins got it I didn't say that baseball sucks and it is a conspiracy. I mean I dont agree, it was close and I hadn't thought about it until I wrote this since I am trying to think like a fan instead of a participant.

The "dirt" marathon seems like a silly idea but who really cares? There is constant harping about the shortening of the major races but when they put this kind of race in (though it seems very arbitrary and like as Andy said an attention deflector) everybody is against it or unbelieveable says it is too short.

The Breeders Cup is far from a perfect organization and some of the things they do are certainly debatable but I can only see one reason why you guys should bitch about the addition of these races and no one has brought it up yet.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Maybe I am being naive but why the all personal anomisity toward the Breeders Cup? I understand what many of you are saying but the fact is the ship has sailed on mny of these subjects like the over focus on the Breeders Cup to the detriment of some traditional races. It is like bitching about the DH in baseball or 3 point line in basketball.

As an owner/trainer I can say that it is hard not to appreciate the addition of a turf sprint or 2 year old filly turf race. I'm sure many of you would think the same if you owned a horse that might possibly be good enough to compete in one of these new races.

As discussed in another far too long thread I can't see why anyone would bitch about the purses for these races being too big or the fact that the fields will be weak or not up to BC quality. There are tons of races that come up weak or with short fields throughout the year that no one call for the removal of. For instance most graded non turf races run in California.

The philosophical reasons behind the complaints are baffling to me. So what if we have a turf sprint champion? Or a 2 year old turf champion. Or a champion miler? What difference does it make to your bankroll or enjoyment of the game? I personally thought Matt Holiday should have been the NL MVP but he when Rollins got it I didn't say that baseball sucks and it is a conspiracy. I mean I dont agree, it was close and I hadn't thought about it until I wrote this since I am trying to think like a fan instead of a participant.

The "dirt" marathon seems like a silly idea but who really cares? There is constant harping about the shortening of the major races but when they put this kind of race in (though it seems very arbitrary and like as Andy said an attention deflector) everybody is against it or unbelieveable says it is too short.

The Breeders Cup is far from a perfect organization and some of the things they do are certainly debatable but I can only see one reason why you guys should bitch about the addition of these races and no one has brought it up yet.

because nobody will have the time to handicap all the races?

I'm not bitching about it, just making comments. I don't really care one way or the other. To me it just seems that its heading in the direction of trying to be all things to all people. Like they are adding a "Claiming Crown" aspect. also its going in the direction of that goofy Calder deal where you have backwards races, etc. In the end it seems like it might end up diluting the overall quality of the events and that we might not see the great betting opportunities like we had in the past.

Also what will the total races now be, 14? and six of them are turf races? what is the real ratio in the US of turf to dirt? 1 out of 10 maybe? Its like suddenly we have to have all these turf championships when throughout the year its much less a factor. I don't mind turf races but shouldn't the championships be supported by a regular season?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

because nobody will have the time to handicap all the races?

I'm not bitching about it, just making comments. I don't really care one way or the other. To me it just seems that its heading in the direction of trying to be all things to all people. Like they are adding a "Claiming Crown" aspect. also its going in the direction of that goofy Calder deal where you have backwards races, etc. In the end it seems like it might end up diluting the overall quality of the events and that we might not see the great betting opportunities like we had in the past.

Also what will the total races now be, 14? and six of them are turf races? what is the real ratio in the US of turf to dirt? 1 out of 10 maybe? Its like suddenly we have to have all these turf championships when throughout the year its much less a factor. I don't mind turf races but shouldn't the championships be supported by a regular season?

If the ratio was like a typical day of US racing there would be 6 -6 furlong races, 3 - 1 1/16th, 2 turf races and a few statebreds.

I believe that some of the lessor dirt stakes for 2 year olds especially at the smaller tracks may morph into turf stakes which would be a positive for racing. There are too many of the same options leading up to the BC and I think that some tracks may do like River Downs did.

The reason that a regular fan should complain about the addition of the races is that the price of attending the event/events will go up. Like virtually all other sports they will surely tie in the first day with the second and probably raise the prices across the board. Now that is something worth fighting against!

Why do fans need to fight in the first place? Any sane person would take their wagering dollar elsewhere. There is really no need to fight morons. They'll never change.

The day the industry listens to the gambler/fan and is able to implement the good ideas and not the bad ones is the day The Pale Horse comes from the Heavens and prevents anyone from enjoying the changes.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Cardus

In other words... Get over it?

Exactly.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

In other words... Get over it?

Yeah pretty much. I mean what a horror, more races with big fields filled with horses from all over the country and possibly the world. Races which will have huge pools in which to bet into. I mean it is sooooo baaaad for the game. The negativity around here is unbelievable.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah pretty much. I mean what a horror, more races with big fields filled with horses from all over the country and possibly the world. Races which will have huge pools in which to bet into. I mean it is sooooo baaaad for the game. The negativity around here is unbelievable.

Extra races that will reduce the pools on Saturday. Outstanding.

[otisotisotis]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Extra races that will reduce the pools on Saturday. Outstanding.

i don't think that's the case.

[miraja2]

While this is obviously an issue that makes me mad, the REAL problem is that over the last couple years there haven't been enough G1 quality horses to fill the BC races that already existed. I think if the BC had expanded this rapidly in an era with an abundance of really good horses in training, the reaction might not have been quite as strong.
The fact that they are choosing to do this in an era where it makes so little sense, enhances the stupidity of the decision in my opinion.

[otisotisotis]

there aren't enough G1 quality horses to fill any race it seems.

[SniperSB23]

No one said these will be G1 races. If they make these G1 races then it is a terrible decision by the Graded Stakes Committee and I will be upset by it. For the Breeders Cup to add these races though doesn't bother me at all even if I think they are wasting their money. At least they picked races they could add that won't dilute the current fields. And it will be three more interesting races to handicap.

[Riot]

How about if, along with appropriate earnings, a committee starts reviewing all horses that want to enter the Kentucky Derby, and chose to allow only the horses that are determined to be of true Grade 1 caliber?

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by miraja2

While this is obviously an issue that makes me mad, the REAL problem is that over the last couple years there haven't been enough G1 quality horses to fill the BC races that already existed. I think if the BC had expanded this rapidly in an era with an abundance of really good horses in training, the reaction might not have been quite as strong.
The fact that they are choosing to do this in an era where it makes so little sense, enhances the stupidity of the decision in my opinion.

Yeah, then they retire early, to me that's a bigger problem.

Originally Posted by otisotisotis

i don't think that's the case.

Check the numbers for this year.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Check the numbers for this year.

Check the weather this year, Pillow. That was most definitely the driving factor in handle. It was so wet it made wagering next to impossible.

Originally Posted by philcski

Check the weather this year, Pillow. That was most definitely the driving factor in handle. It was so wet it made wagering next to impossible.

Yeah I forgot it was sunny and 80 on Friday.

[otisotisotis]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Check the numbers for this year.

1 year doesn't make it a case study.

Originally Posted by otisotisotis

1 year doesn't make it a case study.

You should make fortune cookies. Really enlightening stuff.

We'll just have to wait and see. I'll book any wager that says handle on Saturday in 2008 will increase from 2006's handle on BC day.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Extra races that will reduce the pools on Saturday. Outstanding.

Oh yeah they usually have mortatorium on wagering the weeks leading up to the BC

[cmorioles]

As with most things in racing, this is good for owners/trainers, bad for bettors. The BC used to be the one day you could count on big fields and competitive races. Not any more. Of course, nobody cares about bettors anyway.