Breeders' Cup Going for Grade 1's Again

[blackthroatedwind]

And, furthermore, the reason " decent sprinters " don't run in turf sprints is because there is no money in those races and no graded status to add to their potential residual value. These races are called the BREEDERS Cup.....so why exactly should they be honoring horses that only run in these races because they aren't good enough to run in races that enhance their BREEDING value?

I imagine some " decent " sprinters might show up in a $1 Million BC race....you know the " decent " kind that are too slow to have any chance in the dirt BC sprint. To me that hardly makes it a race of any kind of championship quality.

[the_fat_man]

So now we're not really focusing on mediocre dirt horses but rather those good enough to compete in quality races.

And, if there's a BC race for turf routers and turf milers, why shouldn't there be one for turf sprinters? Assuming we're discussing the addition of races.

Frankly, I'd much rather have seen a BC turf sprint at MTH (friday's card) than 2 mile races for 2 year olds.

It's also not a certainty, at least to me, that the best dirt sprinter will beat the best turf sprinter on the turf. Until that's proven to be the case, there's a place for the turf sprinter.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Frankly, I'd much rather have seen a BC turf sprint at MTH (friday's card) than 2 mile races for 2 year olds.

How about running a $250K for turf sprinters in addition to the 2YO fields? Certainly that would have gotten the same field as a phony BC race would have gotten.

Frankly, the BC needs to find a way to facilitate foreign participation, like every other country does. That is a far more pressing need than adding races of dubious quality.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

How about running a $250K for turf sprinters in addition to the 2YO fields? Certainly that would have gotten the same field as a phony BC race would have gotten.

Frankly, the BC needs to find a way to facilitate foreign participation, like every other country does. That is a far more pressing need than adding races of dubious quality.

If you want the Breeders' Cup to attract foreign based horses.

Take a look at the lineup that Hong Kong offers on December 9th.

The grass sprinters in that field definitely aren't racing because they are subpar and can't cut it on dirt. And there is a mile, a ten furlong, and a twelve furlong event. All different type horses, all quality fields.

If we want to attract foreign participation, card races that foreign based horses run in. Australian, Hong Kong, and Japanese racing all have spectacular sprinters on turf. They also have extraordinary 10 and 12 furlong horses on turf.

How do we get them to come instead of sub-par European horses?

Status and money that beats their own domestic races.

Turf sprints are **** here, but they are big time down under and in Asia.

[blackthroatedwind]

Hong Kong pays the expenses of the horses, and their connections, to come for those races. The BC does not. Plus, the current value of the US dollar isn't helping either.

[brockguy]

the HK Sprint is the World Championship turf sprint race attracting the best horses from Europe, Asia and Australia. Any addition of its kind to the Breeders Cup would not add alot IMO..

[letswastemoney]

in my opinion they are just going to ruin the breeder's cup with too many options. The 3 races they added this year sort of made sense.

I hate turf sprints though, if that's what they're adding now. I guess it's just from having to handicap 12 horse maiden turf sprints at Belmont where no horse has any reliable form that I slowly began to hate turf sprints...

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

How about running a $250K for turf sprinters in addition to the 2YO fields? Certainly that would have gotten the same field as a phony BC race would have gotten.

Frankly, the BC needs to find a way to facilitate foreign participation, like every other country does. That is a far more pressing need than adding races of dubious quality.

Foreign participation isn't going to increase in the foreseeable future. Southern Hemisphere horses aren't going to come because they are in the midst of their own classic carnivals and most would have to supplement. The Japanese would have to supplement, too, and their purses are much bigger than ours. George Washington's fate is going to discourage Euros from trying the Classic for a bit of time. The three turf races are going to contiue to get a mix of good and second level horses, since by the end of October many of the Euros are 'over the top' (ready for a rest after a long season) or 'gone in their coats' (started growing a winter coat and presumed to have gone into a winter metabolism).

[saratogabrit]

I'm not sure i'm in favour of a BC Turf Sprint but it would attract European sprinters-because even with the weakness of the $-a purse of $1 Million which gives the winner earnings of about £270,000 is much more than they could win here.

Also if this race was created-obviously a fair number of Graded Stakes would be added to the calendar in North America and i can see the number of European sprinters being sold into American ownership or campaigned in the US going through the roof.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Foreign participation isn't going to increase in the foreseeable future. Southern Hemisphere horses aren't going to come because they are in the midst of their own classic carnivals and most would have to supplement. The Japanese would have to supplement, too, and their purses are much bigger than ours. George Washington's fate is going to discourage Euros from trying the Classic for a bit of time. The three turf races are going to contiue to get a mix of good and second level horses, since by the end of October many of the Euros are 'over the top' (ready for a rest after a long season) or 'gone in their coats' (started growing a winter coat and presumed to have gone into a winter metabolism).

i doubt george will keep everyone else out. that's the only horse in over 20 years of trying that has lost his life. i certainly hope that the euros are made of sterner stuff. i don't see them avoiding their own turf races after dylan thomas' breakdown.

also, don't forget the races next year are on all weather. if anything, more euros will make the attempt at classic glory.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i doubt george will keep everyone else out. that's the only horse in over 20 years of trying that has lost his life. i certainly hope that the euros are made of sterner stuff. i don't see them avoiding their own turf races after dylan thomas' breakdown.

also, don't forget the races next year are on all weather. if anything, more euros will make the attempt at classic glory.

Don't forget Landseer off the top of my head.

[SniperSB23]

I'm fine with a Turf Sprint since it won't cannibilize the current races, it should be a G3 race though unless it attracts a strong foreign presence several years in a row. I have no problem with the FM Sprint going to G1, I think it should be a G1 race and not have to wait to be given that designation. It is at least as good as the G1s that already exist in that division. The Juvy Turf and Dirt Mile should be given G3 status. If they won't even apply for a G3 then they should wait the normal time and be graded accordingly.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Don't forget Landseer off the top of my head.

And the horse that Lester Piggott rode at Gulfstream, Mr. Brooks, if I recall correctly.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Don't forget Landseer off the top of my head.

talking of euros attempting the classic, on dirt. not euro horses in all races.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

How about running a $250K for turf sprinters in addition to the 2YO fields? Certainly that would have gotten the same field as a phony BC race would have gotten.

Frankly, the BC needs to find a way to facilitate foreign participation, like every other country does. That is a far more pressing need than adding races of dubious quality.

i saw that a marathon is under consideration--or that someone thought it should be under consideration. maybe that would generate more interest from over seas.

i also think the bc should have to wait for their status just like everyone else.

[SentToStud]

A blind man could see this coming a mile away.

A lot of people think the BC hit on a good thing with the FM Turf race and they're just "building on that success" with all these additional races. Then again, fillies and mares like Pebbles, Miss Alleged, Royal Heroine, Miesque (x2), Ridgewood Pearl and Six Perfections did just fine without the sex-restriction.

Adding a Juv Turf race, throwing a million dollars at it and trying to get G1 for it is ludicrous. There are a grand total of two Graded turf races for 2 yo's, both of which are Grade 3's and both run in late November at Hollywood. The purses for these races are $100k and $150k. What possible justification is there for a race like this? For the BC people to say it will draw Euro horses is rubbish. Fact is, they've done a lousy job getting Europeans to come during the last 5-8 years and throwing money at the problem is ridiculous and will only serve to further dilute decent racing throughout the fall.

There's even less reason for a $1,000,000 turf sprint aside from, perhaps, to provide competition to the Delta Jackpot as the most ridiculous race of the year.

I like Breeders Cup Day for the racing but overall it's bad for the sport the way it dilutes good races throughout the fall. The JCGC was ok this year but last year's race was pathetic. It won't be long until races like the JCGC and Cigar are downgraded or even go the way of the Marlboro.

This year's Cigar should have drawn Corinthian and a few others. Instead we saw a pretty lousy race. If you don't think it was a lousy race, you are in disagreement with bettors who wagered far more on Aqueduct's last race that day (a NYBred N1X) than they did on the Cigar.

On the positive side, the Cigar resulted in Naughty New Yorker now being Grade 1 Stakes Placed. There is always something for which to be thankful.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

And, if there's a BC race for turf routers and turf milers, why shouldn't there be one for turf sprinters? Assuming we're discussing the addition of races.

First off, its a new type of race. Ten years ago, how many turf sprints did you see, other than maybe the downhill races at SA? This is a recent phenomenon, that seems to be inspired most strongly by the NYRA racing secretary(ies).

I guess I shouldn't have used the word "phenomenon" when describing turf sprints since there is absolutely nothing phenomenal about them. Hopefully, like new Coke, this fad will fade away.

[JJP]

Speaking of turf sprints and new fads, can an Optional Claiming Breeders Cup race be far behind?

I better watch what I say....