Breeders' Cup Going for Grade 1's Again

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I like the idea of adding a 1 1/4 turf race, so we can have two 7 or 8 fields for middle distance (10f. and 12f.) turf races.

I agree.

10 furlongs on turf can be suited to a completely different horse than the mile or the 12 furlong race.

Desert War in Australia comes to mind.

[blackthroatedwind]

I thought the original idea of the BC was to crown champions. How exactly does diluting the fields even further by adding a Mile and a Quarter turf race achieve that goal? Hell, they only had 8 in the BC Turf this year. I'm very curious who the prospective champions are that would have made up the field for the 1 1/4 race. Certainly they couldn't have come from the meager fields we saw for this year's BC preps.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I thought the original idea of the BC was to crown champions. How exactly does diluting the fields even further by adding a Mile and a Quarter turf race achieve that goal? Hell, they only had 8 in the BC Turf this year. I'm very curious who the prospective champions are that would have made up the field for the 1 1/4 race. Certainly they couldn't have come from the meager fields we saw for this year's BC preps.

Go Between.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Go Between.

OK, at least we have one sane member here.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

OK, at least we have one sane member here.

I am curious though, about your thought that horses run in turf sprints because they are too slow to run sprinting on dirt or going a mile on the green.

Maybe I haven't thought about it enough, but for a horse like Nicole's Dream, before she was retired -- it was just what she was good at.

Is it not possible that some horses are just suited to sprinting on the grass? I'll use Arlington as an example. There plenty of horses who can win there going six furlongs on the dirt (or now, poly) but couldn't win a mile event out of the chute to save their lives. Maybe you're just making a generalization based on the recent proliferation of cheap maiden sellers and NW1X grass sprints full of 20-time losers -- but at the level where we're getting multiple winners and higher-end optional claimers, I tend to disagree and think that some horses are just better suited for that trip.

Of course, this question is only in relation to turf sprinting in general, and not having a BC race for them.

[blackthroatedwind]

Take a look at the pps of the horses that competed in the Turf Express at Hollywood on Saturday.

After doing so I am guessing you will agree with me.

[the_fat_man]

I personally find turf sprints to be just about the most exciting/challenging race there is.

If it were as simple as putting your bad horses in these types of races, then why wouldn't those with decent sprinters, say, enter them in some of these races and collect comparable purses in less competitive, by your assumption, races?

As for these horses not being able to stretch out: This is because stretching out on the turf is a bit more nuanced than stretching out on the dirt. Going from one to two turns presents all sorts of footwork issues--even to horses experienced in doing so. Which makes your favorite horse's, Sleeping Indian, stretch out to 2 turns all the more impressive, slow pace and all: he was on the correct lead throughout -- which is alot more than can be said for English Colony's 1st (quasi) 2 turn effort.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Take a look at the pps of the horses that competed in the Turf Express at Hollywood on Saturday.

After doing so I am guessing you will agree with me.

Bad example, the G1 Citation sucked too. The mid Atlantic has some awesome grass sprinters. That said, I dont think the new races should be G1.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I thought the original idea of the BC was to crown champions. .

You must not have been around when the whole thing was being discussed. The major factor in the creation of the Breeders' Cup was early retirements of top colts and finding a way to prevent them. The original race (Classic) was framed as an enticement for post-Triple Crown 3yos to be kept in training for the fall by dangling a huge purse in front of the owners. The other races were added to get the managers of stallions unlikely to sire top-class 10f runners to pony up fees.

By the way, there were no G1 sprints or G1 turf miles in the US before the Breeders' Cup program came along. The sprint championship was most often a consolation award to sprinter/milers who couldn't step up to classic distances (Dr. Patches, My Juliet) or an extra honor to the classic distance champion who also won sprint races (Forego, Ack Ack). Pure 6f sprinters horses were a minority among sprint championship winners (Ta Wee, Gallant Bob) until the Breeders' Cup came along.