Bullish Luck injured

[Theatrical]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Well you know me and that I share the opinion.....

The De Silva's wanted Silent Witness retired not once but twice. He, like Bullish Luck, was never the same after Japan.

Both had picked up viruses there.

Bullish had an injury but that didn't stop Tony.

Cruz did a really good job in ruining a lovely horse, Russian Pearl. There have been a few that he's run into the ground. A shame.

I say this as a former fan.

I don't know much about anything but one thing I follow religously is HK racing.

I've said this before..... shame on him.

I wouldn't have heard about this but for my quirk of checking on him, making sure he did his swimming etc.

I emailed a friend on the SCMP and jokingly said hey what's up with Bullish man, no swimming in four days?

Not the answer I was expecting.

Hopefully they do what's right by him, whatever that is.

He's a hero, a legend, and God knows this old warrior deserves to get the hell out of HK now and go somewhere nice where the air is less polluted and there's a little space.

I love this horse.

I knew you would remember the discussions we had on the other forum about SW, Tony Cruz and the DaSilvas when all that was going down. There's no one on any forum that I read that knows as much about international racing as you, as well as your love for these horses. I'm really glad to hear that Tony Cruz is losing some of his power. He's surely had some nice horses. I could not understand then (the DaSilvas) and still don't grasp how a trainer could override an owner or owners, but it certainly happened in that case. Silent Witness had some mysterious virus that, if I remember correctly, was never fully identified because there was little or no follow through with tests. Then, he was running down on his "bumpers", but they still kept at it because Cruz wanted SW to retire with "dignity". Proceeding with racing him in the condition he was in precluded any achievement of "dignity". He just wasn't the same horse.
I hope Bullish Luck comes through and heals in record time for you, MMSC. If it's not to be, though, I would hope the connections will stand firm and put the horse first. He sounds like a very special guy.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by Theatrical

I knew you would remember the discussions we had on the other forum about SW, Tony Cruz and the DaSilvas when all that was going down. There's no one on any forum that I read that knows as much about international racing as you, as well as your love for these horses. I'm really glad to hear that Tony Cruz is losing some of his power. He's surely had some nice horses. I could not understand then (the DaSilvas) and still don't grasp how a trainer could override an owner or owners, but it certainly happened in that case. Silent Witness had some mysterious virus that, if I remember correctly, was never fully identified because there was little or no follow through with tests. Then, he was running down on his "bumpers", but they still kept at it because Cruz wanted SW to retire with "dignity". Proceeding with racing him in the condition he was in precluded any achievement of "dignity". He just wasn't the same horse.
I hope Bullish Luck comes through and heals in record time for you, MMSC. If it's not to be, though, I would hope the connections will stand firm and put the horse first. He sounds like a very special guy.

This happens all of the time nowadays i'm afraid to say. Not just in Hong Kong, either.

I don't know a great deal about Cruz, but i still find it hard to believe he is/was as bad as is being said on this thread.

As fans, we are very petty. One moment we are moaning about horses who are retired about less then ten runs, and then we also begin to moan when a trainer is running a horse too much.

I'm not for one minute saying you or mmsc are wrong, but i've seen Cruz and his team at work, it is obvious he cares very much about his horses, especially when he trained SW. He meant the world to him and i doubt he would have caused the horse any harm without knowing. I don't think he is like the Godolphin operation, anyway.

Not all viruses can be found straight away. There is a very popular trainer over here who ran a horse with Stomach Ulcers, but they just couldn't be found and it wasn't until two poor runs that the owner allowed for him to be sent to be tested for everything, which cost the owner A LOT of money, and it wasn't until then that the ulcers were found. The same can be said for many viruses, and although i cannot be sure, i would be more inclined to blame the owners not to have spent more money to get him properly tested in the first place.

Anyway, if SW's owners really didn't like the way the horse was being treated by Cruz why didn't they just take him from the stable? They have every right to do so and no matter how much power Cruz had then, he wouldn't have been able to stop them. No matter how unhappy the owners were "said" to be, if they were genuinely upset with Cruz, they would have pulled him from the yard. It happened to the trainer my father used to work for, a horsebox of the owners came to pick the horse up, but as he was their property, there was nothing he could do other than sit and watch it happen.

[Theatrical]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

This happens all of the time nowadays i'm afraid to say. Not just in Hong Kong, either.

I don't know a great deal about Cruz, but i still find it hard to believe he is/was as bad as is being said on this thread.

As fans, we are very petty. One moment we are moaning about horses who are retired about less then ten runs, and then we also begin to moan when a trainer is running a horse too much.

I'm not for one minute saying you or mmsc are wrong, but i've seen Cruz and his team at work, it is obvious he cares very much about his horses, especially when he trained SW. He meant the world to him and i doubt he would have caused the horse any harm without knowing. I don't think he is like the Godolphin operation, anyway.

Not all viruses can be found straight away. There is a very popular trainer over here who ran a horse with Stomach Ulcers, but they just couldn't be found and it wasn't until two poor runs that the owner allowed for him to be sent to be tested for everything, which cost the owner A LOT of money, and it wasn't until then that the ulcers were found. The same can be said for many viruses, and although i cannot be sure, i would be more inclined to blame the owners not to have spent more money to get him properly tested in the first place.

Anyway, if SW's owners really didn't like the way the horse was being treated by Cruz why didn't they just take him from the stable? They have every right to do so and no matter how much power Cruz had then, he wouldn't have been able to stop them. No matter how unhappy the owners were "said" to be, if they were genuinely upset with Cruz, they would have pulled him from the yard. It happened to the trainer my father used to work for, a horsebox of the owners came to pick the horse up, but as he was their property, there was nothing he could do other than sit and watch it happen.

Your guess is as good as mine here.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

Anyway, if SW's owners really didn't like the way the horse was being treated by Cruz why didn't they just take him from the stable? They have every right to do so and no matter how much power Cruz had then, he wouldn't have been able to stop them.

I don't think you understand how much power the HKJC has.

Back in the day, if Cruz wanted something, he pretty much got it.

He was only denied once that I heard about, and it might have been the beginnng of the end of his canonization.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I don't think you understand how much power the HKJC has.

Back in the day, if Cruz wanted something, he pretty much got it.

He was only denied once that I heard about, and it might have been the beginnng of the end of his canonization.

As i said, it doesn't matter how much power the trainer has. He could be the ruler of Hong Kong, but at the thend of the day the horse is the owner's property and not his.

If the owners really weren't happy with the treatment the horse was getting, they could have taken him somewhere else. There is no doubt about that, and i can't see how there is even an argument about it.

The HKJC?? They should have nothing to do with the matter, this is about the trainer and the owner, no one else.

I'm standing by Cruz on this matter.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

As i said, it doesn't matter how much power the trainer has. He could be the ruler of Hong Kong, but at the thend of the day the horse is the owner's property and not his.

If the owners really weren't happy with the treatment the horse was getting, they could have taken him somewhere else. There is no doubt about that, and i can't see how there is even an argument about it.

The HKJC?? They should have nothing to do with the matter, this is about the trainer and the owner, no one else.

I'm standing by Cruz on this matter.

I'm not arguing, I'm telling you that you're not understanding the kind of pressure put on those people from the top.

This was everyones horse. This was the pride of Hong Kong.They were pressured.

Stand by Cruz, good for you. Let's just hope Wong Wing Keung at least gives him a proper break.

Poor horse hasn't left HK in forever.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I'm not arguing, I'm telling you that you're not understanding the kind of pressure put on those people from the top.

This was everyones horse. This was the pride of Hong Kong.They were pressured.

Stand by Cruz, good for you. Let's just hope Wong Wing Keung at least gives him a proper break.

Poor horse hasn't left HK in forever.

I understand very well, and i'm telling you that if the owners had actually wanted him retired when they "said" they did, they could have done so.

Neither Cruz or the HKJC could have stopped them, and if they had have tried they would have lost in court.

It's a no brainer.

If anyone is the blame here, it is the owners, they have been made to look good through their own media representation.

I will stand up for Cruz.

[gallant bloom]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

Neither Cruz or the HKJC could have stopped them

u are wrong.

they did.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by NoChanceToDance

but i've seen Cruz and his team at work

Just out of curiosity, when and where?

Just wondering.....

It seems strange to say you don't know much about him and then say this.

[NoChanceToDance]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Just out of curiosity, when and where?

Just wondering.....

It seems strange to say you don't know much about him and then say this.

Cruz is quite a respected man over here. There have been interviews and different things about him. Silent Witness was also a legend over here.

I don't know much about the other horses he has trained, but i'm pretty sure he wouldn't have done anything to make SW to suffer in anyway if he didn't need to.

Sure, he was probably under a bit of pressure to keep running him, but at the end of the day, the owners just have to say "no" and no matter how much almighty power the mafia have, they cannot stop them or it turns into a legal battle, and there is no way the HKJC would come on top in that situation.

[my miss storm cat]

He finally went for a swim..... maybe he's feeling a little better.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Theatrical

He sounds like a very special guy.

He is!!!